【Guangming International Forum Dialogue】
Issam Sharaf Xu Baofeng Xiao Lianbing
Issam Sharaf, former Prime Minister of Egypt
Xu Baofeng, Executive Vice President of the "Belt and Road" Research Institute of Beijing Language and Culture University
Secretary General of the International Exchange Cooperation and Communication Center of Xiao Lianbing Guangming Daily
1. "Some Western countries have indeed been smearing China's anti-epidemic efforts"
Xiao Lianbing: Dear Mr. Sharaf and Mr. Xu Baofeng, please talk about the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on Egypt, China and human society.
Sharaf: The pandemic has brought a lot of changes to life in Egypt, especially the way people socialize. I haven't visited China since 2019, but I've had fifteen or six online meetings with the Chinese side. In Egypt, exams, classes and many other things are currently conducted online, and many literary and artistic activities and celebrations are held strictly online. Our lives have really changed a lot, and we have been affected a lot by the epidemic. However, I would like to emphasize that the epidemic is a common global challenge and problem, which further confirms that we share a common destiny and a community of common destiny. The epidemic is not only a challenge to China, not only to Europe, but also to all mankind. No country or individual can face global challenges alone, and states must cooperate. An important lesson from the epidemic is that we should better cooperate with each other.
Xu Baofeng: After the outbreak of the epidemic, human society has undergone great changes, and people's lives have been greatly affected. No nation or country can stand alone in the face of the pandemic. For the sake of human welfare, China has actively carried out worldwide epidemic prevention and control cooperation since the beginning of the outbreak, shared anti-epidemic experience and anti-epidemic wisdom, worked with the world to help each other overcome difficulties, and practiced the concept of a community with a shared future for mankind, which has been widely praised and praised worldwide. China has not only successfully contained the epidemic, but also set a positive example for the international community with a stable social order and sustained economic development.
Xiao Lianbing: A certain Western country has tried its best to trace the origin of the new crown virus to "politicize" and "stigmatize" and throw the pot at China, what is your comment on this?
Sharaf: Some countries in the West have been using the argument of a clash of civilizations to suppress emerging countries. In fact, some Western countries not only use the "politicization" and "stigmatization" of the epidemic to throw the pot at China, but also exaggerate the clash of civilizations on the Hong Kong issue, the Muslim issue and even many international issues in order to achieve their own goals, especially to curb the rise of emerging forces. I think some countries in the West are deliberately putting some obstacles to China's development. On the issue of the epidemic, for example, on the issue of virus traceability, we can clearly see who wants to do evil. Is China trying to cause trouble for the world, or is it a country with ulterior motives creating trouble to curb China's development? We can all see it clearly. China has done a very good job in fighting the epidemic. China is now the world's second largest economy, the largest manufacturing country, China is developing so well, why create trouble? China itself is doing a good job, so what reason is there to create trouble? Of course, countries with ulterior motives are setting up obstacles for China, which is normal logic. China has controlled the epidemic in a relatively short period of time, which is worth learning. However, we have seen that some countries in the West have indeed been smearing China's anti-epidemic efforts, and other international events are the same, all of which use Western methods to curb the development of other countries in other regions. The Western media is very strong and swayed by political forces, so it is not fair. There are some Western media, they are very professional in destroying the image of other countries, they are very good at smearing.
Xu Baofeng: I have taken particular note of the views of two German guests who participated in the "Guangming International Forum Dialogue", one is Mr. Labess, former President of Heinrich Heine University in Düsseldorf, and the other is Mr. Fang Lauger, Director of the Institute of Medical History, Theory and Ethics of the University of Düsseldorf. They said that in history, whenever the epidemic hit mankind, the phenomenon of one nation throwing the pot to another nation and another country will appear, and people will "look for the so-called guilty", but there is no concept of "guilty" in modern medicine. "Politicization" and "stigmatization" are prominent manifestations of unilateralism and a prominent reflection of the Cold War mentality in the post-epidemic era, which cannot bring about social development and progress, but on the contrary will hinder global efforts to fight the epidemic and eventually become a huge barrier to the harmonious development of human society. The virus has no ideology and does not distinguish between East and West. China has taken the lead in containing the epidemic on a global scale and maintained economic development and social stability, which contains rich Chinese experience and Chinese wisdom. The Communist Party of China and the government have been actively sharing successful experiences and wisdom around the world. However, some countries have put these experiences and wisdom under the so-called political and ideological magnifying glass to judge and point fingers, which has seriously violated the concept of common development of human society, deviated from the original intention of epidemic prevention of human health and well-being, disrupted the order of common anti-epidemic in the world, and is a departure from contemporary social civilization.
On April 21 this year, China Kexing and VACSERA signed an agreement to produce Covid-19 vaccines in Egypt, which became the first country on the African continent to cooperate with China in the production of COVID-19 vaccines. Workers prepare for the boxing of COVID-19 vaccines at the vaccine production plant of the Egyptian Bioproducts and Vaccines Company in Giza, Egypt, on Sept. 6. Xinhua News Agency
2. "Ancient civilizations will also urge us to achieve new prosperity"
Xiao Lianbing: In your opinion, what role does ancient civilization play in the construction of civilization in the post-epidemic era?
Sharaf: I have read a lot of books and materials about ancient Chinese civilization, especially some historical materials on the exchange of civilizations between ancient China and ancient Egypt through the ancient Silk Road. When I studied Chinese culture and civilization, I found that there are many similarities between Chinese and Egyptian civilizations. The ancient civilization of China and the civilization of ancient Egypt are the birthplace of human civilization, and people can find roots from it. Our two civilizations have had a lot of exchanges in the past, and now they are also communicating, and I hope that there will be more exchanges in the future.
The Egyptian government has a lot of protection measures for cultural heritage. Recently, the protection of ancient Egyptian civilization has once again been put on the agenda of the Egyptian government. If you follow the news, you'll notice that the Grand Egyptian Museum, the world's largest archaeological museum, was inaugurated in the Giza Highlands to protect our cultural heritage. Some time ago, the Egyptian government held a very large-scale and spectacular opening ceremony of the Great Egyptian Museum. We call this new museum an open museum, but the whole of Egypt is an open museum, and you can see historical sites everywhere you go. The Egyptian people have always been proud.
I have always believed that today's civilization should be based on the development of ancient civilizations, and ancient civilizations will also urge us to achieve new prosperity. The world is losing some soft power, some spiritual stuff. Who can make the world a better place, to make it more humane and more moral, rather than a cold modern industrial society? I am proud to say that only countries like China and Egypt, which have good and long historical and cultural roots, can do so, and only ancient civilizations have the foundation to assume this responsibility. Therefore, I think the "Belt and Road" initiative is indeed a very good initiative, it has two priorities: one is interconnection, the other is people-to-people communication, building and forming a lot of cooperative relations and interpersonal relationships, close people-to-people exchanges. If we can further promote the interconnection of people's hearts and minds and the mutual exchanges between people under the framework of the "Belt and Road", we will certainly be able to build a better modern civilization and a better modern culture. Today's people, especially the younger generation, have begun to dislike this cold modern industrial society, including war, indifference to the people's internal affairs, and failed diplomacy. Therefore, I think it will be very important if the Belt and Road Initiative can further promote interpersonal exchanges and people-to-people communication.
Xu Baofeng: Ancient civilization contains rich wisdom and experience in the early days of mankind. Modern civilization has achieved vigorous development in the past few hundred years, but it is only a short stage in the entire history of the development of human civilization. In the post-epidemic era, when the drawbacks of industrialization and consumerism are becoming increasingly prominent, people should be soberly aware of the two aspects of the problem. First of all, the profound accumulation of ancient civilization is a fertile soil for the stable development of modern civilization; secondly, the inheritance and innovation of ancient civilization is an important support for the soft power of modern society and culture. The world's ancient civilizations, including the Chinese civilization and the Egyptian civilization, have a stable civilization foundation for sustainable development, and are also continuously nourishing the modern social development in the tradition of this civilization. The fine traditions of Chinese civilization of patriotism, dedication, pleasure and prudence have played an important role in the fight against the epidemic in Chinese society, and China's belief in "the world is just" and "stressing faith and cultivating harmony" since ancient times has been an important value support for jointly building a community with a shared future for mankind in the post-epidemic era. A country's cultural soft power depends on its influence on science and technology, economy and politics in the short term, and in the medium and long term, it depends more on the sustainable provision that a country's civilizational traditions can provide. China is striving to build a system for the inheritance and development of China's excellent traditional culture. Whether it is the "five links" of the "Belt and Road" initiative or the concept of peaceful development upheld by China, it will be a great contribution of China, a country with an ancient civilization, to the construction of the entire human civilization in the post-epidemic era.
Tourists visit the Pyramids of Giza in Egypt on October 21. Xinhua News Agency
3. "Our spiritual world should not be ignored"
Xiao Lianbing: You all mentioned cultural soft power, please elaborate further on its role.
Sharaf: Contemporary civilization is a more complex definition, which includes hard power and soft power, and civilization includes "hardware" and "software". Although this material world is developing, our spiritual world should not be ignored because of this. For example, if you look at China, China's industrialization is developing rapidly, infrastructure development is very good, and China's traditional values have also been preserved, and traditional culture has also been preserved. We should not forget that while modernizing we should preserve our culture, forgetting that it would be a big mistake to forget. What I want to say is that what I have seen and heard in China has made me feel more and more that China is an example in this regard, and people's words and attitudes show that China's "hardware" and "software" are indeed developing very well, and China's soft power has been constantly consolidating its hard power.
Culture is soft power, and different countries attract each other through soft power. This soft power is embodied in the arts of film, television, music and theater, which is the most conducive to promoting mutual understanding among peoples. We are amazed by the fact that China's industrial and infrastructure development has attracted worldwide attention. But on the other hand, we also need to know more about the cultural aspects of China, that is, the culture in the modern Chinese context. What we Egyptians know about China is probably ancient China, and I think Chinese know the same about Egypt, probably more about the pyramids, the monuments that came hundreds of years ago. Egyptians today have seen China's economic and technological developments very clearly, but they also need to know more about China in terms of culture. We now actually have a desire to understand what cultures and ideas are behind China's rapid development. For me personally, I especially like Chinese calligraphy, as well as the artworks in Chinese museums, and I am very amazed by Chinese art, and I very much hope to bring these arts to Egypt, so that Egyptians can taste Chinese culture, so that they can really understand each other.
Xu Baofeng: Cultural soft power is not an impact and destructive force, but a fusion force and a construction force. Cultural soft power is not built through military, economic and political power, and cultural soft power and cultural hegemony are in conflict with each other. Cultural hegemony based on other forces ultimately creates a clash of civilizations, and the impact on weak cultural groups is extremely impactful and destructive. China is constantly forming its own cultural soft power, but the logical starting point and goal of China's cultural soft power is based on its own deep civilization foundation, which is gradually formed in the process of absorption, reference and innovation. Whether it is the sinicization of Marxism or the study and reference of other civilizational traditions in the world, it reflects the characteristics of China's remarkable integration and construction in the process of generating cultural soft power. Under the vision of "the beauty of beauty, the beauty of beauty and the commonality, the beauty of each other, and the unity of the world", China's cultural soft power is more like a development concept contributed by an ancient civilization to the entire human society, and an important engine for the common prosperity and development of different civilizations in the world. China's future development will certainly affect the world constructively, but it will certainly not intervene in the world as destructively as some countries in the West.
Xiao Lianbing: What are your views on the way to achieve exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations?
Sharaf: We often say that if you want to learn about the culture of another country, it is best to live in that country for a while. How can culture be effectively disseminated? Culture is soaked in life, and if different cultures are to spread to other places, do you want to use a strong way, or a wise way? I think that better communication should be carried out through soft and soft ways such as media, sports, and education, rather than adopting a relatively strong attitude. People should understand and communicate with each other, and people-to-people exchanges are the best way for civilization to spread in the post-epidemic era. In that regard, we need to do more. This interactive dialogue between people will be very powerful in promoting the spread of culture.
Xu Baofeng: The basis for exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations is the connection between people and the people. The basis for the development of different civilizations in the world is different, but the pursuit of health, happiness, security and stability by human beings is common. In the post-epidemic era, exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations have become more and more urgent and important, because there has never been a historical period in the entire history of human social development that has closely linked the common destiny of the entire human race as it is now. In this context, exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations can be realized and strengthened through four ways: "contact", "sharing", "exchange" and "mutual learning". Because of the epidemic, online forms have become the main way of international communication. Although the reality of online contact is limited, but online forums, conferences and other contact methods have broken through the previous economic, spatial and other objective conditions, expanded the contact area and frequency of different civilizations, if you can share the real stories around each other in this process, exchange mutual understanding and understanding, then on the basis of people-to-people communication to achieve multi-frequency resonance and civilization exchanges and mutual learning.
Xiao Lianbing: Please talk about the role of the Belt and Road Initiative in exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations.
Sharaf: I think that before and after the Belt and Road Initiative was proposed, the cultural exchanges between Egypt and China were different. The Belt and Road Initiative is a watershed. Before it was proposed, the cultural exchange between Egypt and China was mainly something ancient from thousands of years ago. After its proposal, Egypt responded positively to this initiative, and there was a qualitative leap in Egyptian-Chinese relations. I have personally held hundreds of lectures related to the Belt and Road Initiative. Through these lectures, I have made more and more audiences understand the importance of infrastructure and people-to-people exchanges for inter-state relations. According to my observation, people's awareness of the importance of cultural and people-to-people exchanges is higher than ever. The political relationship between Egypt and China is steadily advancing, and people-to-people exchanges can contribute significantly to this process, and our two ancient civilizations of the world will be more closely connected. I feel that there is more to be done in the future, not only between our two countries, but also for the whole world.
Xu Baofeng: The "Belt and Road" initiative is based on the present and links history and the future, which is not only a pragmatic measure for the world to share the fruits of development, but also an important response to the history and future of the development of world civilization. The ancient Silk Road played a huge role in promoting the exchange of Chinese and foreign civilizations, and even had an important impact on the process of promoting the modern civilization of the whole world. The "Belt and Road" will steadily advance in the direction of achieving policy communication, facility connectivity, unimpeded trade, financial integration, and people-to-people ties, and it is the trend of the times for civilizational exchanges and mutual learning around the world.
4. "The concept of a community with a shared future for mankind advocates exchanges and cooperation between countries"
Xiao Lianbing: What is the connection between exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations and building a community with a shared future for mankind?
Sharaf: The community of shared future for mankind is a very important concept that can promote exchanges and cooperation between different countries. Because our people all over the world live on the same planet, we face the same global challenges and problems, and we must address them together. The concept of a community with a shared future for mankind is very important, and building such a community will help people to build closer interconnections. Every nation has its own values, and if we can establish a communication mechanism between different values through exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations, and discover the commonalities of different values, it will be of great help to build a community with a shared future for mankind. People will not understand each other without communication, and if everyone understands each other, they will be able to put into practice the concept of a community with a shared future for mankind. Some scholars in Egypt and other countries have pointed out in a book that different ideas and religions, such as Confucianism, Islam, christianity, etc., have 12 very similar basic values, and they are almost consistently present in these ideas and religions. If we can strengthen cultural exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations, we can find more common ground among civilizations. I believe that the effect of cultural exchanges should be reflected in the mutual recognition of cultures and the mutual recognition of values, so that people realize that different civilizations actually believe in almost the same values, so that many people will better accept the concept of human beings as a community of destiny, and we will go further on the road of a community of human destiny. Promoting cultural exchanges now better prepares people for the future of a community with a shared future for mankind.
Xu Baofeng: Exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations will enhance mutual understanding, eliminate prejudices and misunderstandings among different civilizations, and consolidate the consensus of different civilizations on the future well-being of mankind. Regardless of the length of their history and the strength of their influence, the different civilizations of the world have contributed to the balance and development of the civilization ecology of the entire human society. We must respect the diversity of world civilizations, and only on this basis can we establish dialogue and exchange relations of equality and mutual trust, and can we think about the future of the entire human society from the perspective of a community with a shared future for mankind. In this process, unilateral and extremist attitudes and methods such as bullying and solipsism are extremely undesirable. The establishment of a multilateral people-to-people exchange mechanism with positive interaction around the world should become an inevitable choice for the future development of human society.
Xiao Lianbing: How do you understand the role of a country and a nation in promoting cultural self-confidence and cultural mutual trust in building a community with a shared future for mankind?
Sharaf: I was in Beijing before at a very important forum on how to build trust between countries. Mutual trust is essential for comprehensive cooperation. How do you build trust? First of all, we must believe in our own culture, and respect the culture of others, respect the difference between each other's culture and our own culture. I think this is actually what President Xi Jinping said about exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations. Culture is not to be exactly the same, but to "the beauty of beauty, beauty and commonality, each beautiful, the world is the same." Confidence and respect for others will lead to better mutual cooperation and communication.
I think this may also be the core issue that the Belt and Road Initiative wants to solve. A country, a world, a community, should have different cultures, and cultural diversity is very important everywhere. If a painting has only one color, the painting will appear very monotonous. The same is true of our world. A country needs to have its own identity and cultural identity. In Egypt, we have Muslims, but Egypt is not just a Muslim Egypt. There are 56 ethnic groups in China, each of which has its own culture, but all belong to this country, and they are all part of the national culture and national cultural identity. Each people can have its own culture, but at the national level this should not be an element of conflict, and at the macro level we should respect such differences. In fact, from a national and global point of view, we should have a transcendent consensus, that is, we are all part of human beings, we can never go beyond such a big premise, so we should not promote the clash of civilizations, but should believe and accept the concept that human beings have different cultures and the world has different cultural forms.
Xu Baofeng: Cultural self-confidence and cultural mutual trust are not contradictory. Cultural self-confidence is the foundation and premise of cultural mutual trust. Only when a country and nation overcome historical nihilism, can it profoundly explore the historical and cultural traditions of its own country and nation, and discover the cultural essence of its own cultural tradition that has historical value and the driving force of the times, can it effectively establish its own cultural self-confidence, and at the same time find its commonality with other civilizations at the root, and then find a value basis for mutual trust with other civilizations. Human societies share a common pursuit of future well-being, and once we find commonality in this value, we will cross the political, economic, religious, and cultural barriers to explore a development approach and mode of interaction that is acceptable to all. Building cultural mutual trust on the basis of cultural self-confidence, and focusing on the five goals of "lasting peace, universal security, common prosperity, openness, inclusiveness and cleanliness and beauty" upheld by the community of human destiny under the premise of cultural mutual trust, we will certainly be able to meet the challenges of our living on the same planet together.
Guangming Daily (12/1/1/2021)
Source: Guangming Network - Guangming Daily