In March 1980, He Zuoxiu and five other people visited the United States and took a group photo in the office of Yang Zhenning at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. /Source: Institute of Theoretical Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences
The author | Zhang Jianfeng
The source | NetEase Technology's "Science Master" column
Mr. He Zuoxiu, a 94-year-old famous theoretical physicist and academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and Mr. Yang Zhenning have been in contact with Mr. Yang Zhenning since the 1970s, and were one of the first local scientists to contact Mr. Yang Zhenning (after winning the Nobel Prize) when he visited China.
In the previous interview( he talked to the "Master of Science" column of NetEase Technology about mr. Yang Zhenning and his people, as well as his situation before and after his return to China, his relationship with Mr. Li Zhengdao and other topics. In this interview now, Academician He and his wife Qing Chengrui (professor of the Department of Physics of Peking University and researcher of the Institute of Theoretical Physics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences) continue to talk to us about how they view Mr. Yang and Ms. Weng Fan after the age of eighty, as peers, they have a deep understanding of the year-old marriage of Yang and Weng, and have revealed some peripherals that are not known to most people.
Academician He said, "There are many things that I didn't understand when I was young, but now that I have become an old man, I have begun to understand why the elderly have ideas that we did not understand at first." When you were young, you thought you understood, but you didn't. ”
Academician He Zuoxiu and his wife. / Photo: Wang Zheng
As a scientific worker of the older generation, Academician He, who has participated in the national scientific research of two bombs and one satellite, is also very concerned about China's scientific undertakings, and he believes that China's level of scientific development is too far from that of the United States, and we must not be complacent and complacent, but must see the actual gaps and deficiencies. One of the views of the couple is that a core factor that determines the level of science in a country and whether a country can be a master must be the level of productivity of the country, that is, whether the economy is developing, and without this foundation, the scientific level cannot be developed. In addition, solid and long-term efforts are also required.
"To train a large number of outstanding scientists, even masters, this is by no means something that can be achieved in three or five years."
01.
Whether a person loves the country or not depends on his actual actions
"Master of Science": Mr. Yang gave up his AMERICAN citizenship and restored his Chinese nationality in 2015, what do you think?
He Zuoxiu: Of course, this is a very good thing. However, I personally have always thought that changing nationality is a very common thing, I have never taken nationality so seriously, what is so remarkable about this? Some people with Chinese nationality also do bad things, scolding this and that every day. Therefore, whether a person is patriotic or not patriotic is not measured by nationality, but to see whether you are patriotic or not, the key is to see the actual actions of this person.
What you may not know is that when I joined the revolutionary movement in my early years, there were many classmates who also supported the revolutionary movement, and many of them are now living abroad, in various situations. There are also those who have changed their nationality because they need to have children to support them. Some of their children have gone abroad and are now older, and some of their classmates have suffered various unfortunate shocks in many revolutionary movements, and now they are old, so they have also emigrated abroad to live. Isn't that normal?
Whether it is Mr. Li or Mr. Yang, what nationality they are and their support and contribution to China are not contradictory.
02.
We are very supportive of Yang Weng's combination, which is a once-in-a-lifetime event
"Master of Science": Mr. Yang and Weng Fan combined in his later years, this matter has attracted all kinds of discussion on the Internet, as a colleague familiar with them, how do you see this matter?
He Zuoxiu: I tell you, from the beginning we were supportive, the reason is very simple, when Yang Zhenning and Weng Fan interacted, Du Zhili had already passed away. Before Du Zhili's death, Weng Fan had a lot of contacts with the two of them. Far from being unreasonable. What about the age gap? Both of them feel suitable for themselves, outsiders feel that they have a gap, which makes no sense, and the gap is not a gap for the parties themselves to decide.
Qing Chengrui: For Mr. Yang, Weng Fan has played a great role, maintaining Mr. Yang's current physical and mental health, her role can not be replaced by anyone. First of all, mentally, and then in life, for example, going out to give lectures in other places, after the situation, Weng Fan decided to return to Beijing immediately for treatment.
At least twice, urgently sent back to Beijing, Weng Fan signed on behalf of his family and performed surgery at Union Hospital.
He Zuoxiu: I can tell you a small thing, once Mr. Ding Zhaozhong came to China, it seems that there was a problem with the cecum and he was going to have surgery. His child was abroad, and when he heard about it, he asked him to hurry back to the United States for surgery. Mr. Ding was not happy, how to ask me to go back to the United States, insisted that I want to do it in China, and said to the doctor, my family does not sign, I sign it myself.
Americans always feel that our Chinese scientific level is very low, the cecum surgery, why can't we do it? China's medical level is not so low.
Qing Chengrui: Things like Mr. Yang and Weng Fan are encounterable but not sought, which is a very good thing. The criticism of them is that people who do not understand the situation look at it from their own worldly point of view, thinking that Weng Fan must have some economic demands. This is not the case. For Mr. Yang, the fact that he met Weng Fan was itself very accidental. We understand Mr. Yang very well, they have encountered a golden opportunity, and they seized it, and both of them have the courage to face the pressure of public opinion. I can also understand the pressure of public opinion, especially in China, when it began to come out, some people scolded it so much that it was too unreasonable, saying that Yang Zhenning was morally corrupt, which had nothing to do with morality, did they hinder others? Is it in the public interest?
He Zuoxiu: There are many things that I didn't understand when I was young, but now that I have become an old man, I am beginning to understand why old people have ideas that we don't understand at first. When you were young, you thought you understood, but you didn't.
Academician He Zuoxiu (front row, first from the right) at the 90th birthday academic seminar, Mr. Yang Zhenning spoke. /Courtesy of the interviewee
03.
Chinese don't be complacent, our scientific level is incomparable with that of western developed countries
Master of Science: What do you think scientists like you who have grown up in China and scientists who have grown up overseas like Mr. Yang and Mr. Li have in common?
He Zuoxiu: Everyone does scientific work, and the scientific work itself is the same, it is all to act in accordance with the spirit and methods of science, there is no difference, but the conditions are different, they work abroad, the material conditions are much richer than ours, the scientific research environment is much better, and the level of the scientific environment in which they live is far more developed and advanced than ours, this is a fact.
After our liberation, we were poor and broken, and during the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, the southwest United University, the highest institution of learning in the country, had more than 3,000 students and teachers, which was completely incomparable with foreign countries, and we could not open many classes at all. In 1947, I was transferred from the Department of Chemistry of Shanghai Jiao Tong University to the Department of Physics of Tsinghua University, and I could not find any advanced scientific books to read. At that time, there was a Longmen Bookstore that introduced some foreign books, which were very expensive, even pirated copies were very expensive, and students couldn't see it at all, so you can't imagine how backward China was at that time.
This backward productivity also determines that the scientists in our country are incomparable with the United States and the West.
Qing Chengrui: Although we also produced Yang Zhenning, Li Zhengdao, and Wu Jianxiong, they were produced on the scientific soil of the United States. It should be said that in the scientific soil, we are incomparable with the scientific level of the West, let alone that the creativity of our Chinese must be higher than that of foreign countries.
Circulating on the Internet is a "Qian Xuesen's question" - "Why can't China's higher education system produce world-class masters of science?" "It's actually a pseudo-question. The high level of Li Zhengdao and Yang Zhenning, I personally think it has nothing to do with China's Southwest United University education system, because both of them were originally talented, good students in China, good students running abroad, and the standards of good students are the same in all places. However, because China was engaged in the War of Resistance Against Japan, the Southwest United Congress also had the opportunity to concentrate the best talents in the country. But it is true that it is different from the level of education in schools, and there are indeed good and bad differences between different schools.
He Zuoxiu: Someone asked a question, if Yang Zhenning and Li Zhengdao had stayed in China and wondered what would have developed later, would they have won the Nobel Prize? I replied that it must be 100% impossible to get, because there is no such scientific research condition at all. At that time, that is, in 1956, we could not even get scientific information from abroad in time. The universe is not conserved, we can't even find the phenomenon, and there is no such condition for Mr. Wu Jianxiong to do a scientific experiment at a low temperature. This means that the environment and conditions of the country are very important.
Qing Chengrui: Some people think that we have invested a lot of money and cultivated a lot of talents in recent years, and that China's science is no longer good, which is not a fact at all. In our theoretical physics industry, the level is much higher than in the past, but it is still early to say that it has surpassed the United States, or has caught up with the United States. For example, if you go to the hospital to see a doctor, more than 95% of the medical equipment you use is all produced and imported from abroad, and those equipment are all the basic principles of physics, and the means of examination are all the means of physics.
Those big devices were all imported, including the hearing aids on the ears of both of us, sorry, but also from abroad.
I wore a hearing aid in my ear, and there was a small chip, and a small sensor, and then I enlarged it, and that's it, and there were four companies in the world monopolized, and China had no share. We're harder to get into now, why? Because it has patent control.
He Zuoxiu: My hearing aid is sold single (taken from the ear to show), do you know how much money is one? More than 40,000 yuan a piece, this set of two is almost 100,000 yuan, but the origin is from Denmark, which is a small country and a high-level country. This is called high technology.
Qing Chengrui: Chinese physicists have not contributed at all to these. We have developed physics for so many years, we have trained a large number of teachers, this is a fact, but also sent out a large number of excellent students, slowly began to grow, at least these things we can take over the production, and before this skill did not have. Some advanced large-scale instruments have also begun to be trial-produced and improved, but the original things are all foreign.
To change this situation, the first is not easy, rely on long-term continuous efforts and struggles. Second, the most important thing is, first of all, to vigorously develop the economy and take economic construction as the central task. It is also necessary to continue to increase investment in science and technology. But to produce a large number of outstanding scientists, even masters, this is not something that can be achieved in three or five years.