Today is the 37th Teachers' Day. In 1988, Zhao Dongmei was admitted to the History Department of Peking University from Hebei With excellent college entrance examination results. After ten years of studying in the History Department of Peking University, Dr. Zhao Dongmei graduated in 1998 and stayed on to teach at the University, teaching in the History Department of Peking University for 23 years.
Last week, Zhao Dongmei and the author chatted for nearly four hours in a café near the university, about history and life. Zhao Dongmei, who was sitting in front of her, was dressed in a white shirt with a neat and trendy cut, a delicate rose gold chain hanging from the spectacle legs, and a smile revealed two pear nests, but in the slow chat, the author found that this professor who "loves more true children" is not only interesting and sharp, but also her love for history and her seriousness about education.
"In fact, studying history is very different from my initial imagination." Zhao Dongmei, who is now a professor in the History Department of Peking University, a doctoral supervisor, and a director of the China Song History Research Association, not only lectures on ancient Chinese history to students inside and outside the department at Peking University, but also gained a wider audience in programs such as "Dongmei Talks about National History" in the Hundred Forums and "Dongmei Talks about National History". However, when Zhao Dongmei was admitted to the history department of Peking University in 1988, her current students had not even been born.
Zhao Dongmei and two students who put on their master's robes this year
The Literature Girl enrolled in the History Department
Zhao Dongmei's research direction is divided into Song history according to the generation, but she prefers to regard her research as institutional history. Zhao Dongmei's initial sensitivity to the system came from the household registration: Zhao Dongmei was born in Tangshan, Hebei Province in 1971, and in the 1976 Tangshan earthquake, her mother led one and hugged one, and took the Zhao Dongmei sisters on a train for three days and three nights to join her father, who was a soldier. She was supposed to go to elementary school that year, but she didn't have a hukou and couldn't enroll. The class teacher kindly took her in, with the additional condition that "if you don't study well, you don't want it" - Zhao Dongmei has been achieving excellent results since then, and this sentence is the first driving force.
In the first choice, Zhao Dongmei filled in all three majors in history - the History Department of Peking University, the History Department of Sun Yat-sen University, and the History Department of Lanzhou University. The result of the assessment and the score of the college entrance examination are only one point apart, and Zhao Dongmei entered the history department of Peking University as she wished. But this "scholar" found that learning history is completely different from imagining. "My historical dream was based on a more vulgar dream—I wanted to write a historical novel." Zhao Dongmei said that his generation was born from 1965 to 1975, and experienced a generation of teenagers in the 80s of the last century, many of whom had a literary dream, "We didn't have anything to 'compare' at that time, that is, to read novels, and everyone was a literary lover." In addition to contemporary literary works, Zhao Dongmei has read many historical novels since she was a child, especially likes Gao Yang and Jin Yong, and even cherishes the semi-literary Ming and Qing novels such as "The Strange Situation Witnessed in Twenty Years" and "The Appearance of officialdom".
"If my literary dreams were particularly firm, I might have a blue nose and swollen face in the history department." Zhao Dongmei smiled and said that fortunately he was a good student and an obedient and gentle person, who slowly adapted and gradually understood what history was.
Nowadays, the accumulation of more than thirty years of studying history and teaching for more than twenty years also makes Zhao Dongmei very responsible to point out that not everyone is suitable for studying history: "In fact, there are many universities that are not history lovers who study history to take the graduate school of the history department, and may touch it very painfully in the core field of special specialization, the tutor also hurts, the student also hurts, sometimes it is screwed twice, and sometimes it cannot be screwed." ”
When Zhao Dongmei was taking the doctoral examination, there was no doctoral supervisor in the whole Beijing area who could take the direction of Song history, and she applied for the graduate school of Mr. Zhu Zongbin, a historian who studied the Southern and Northern Dynasties of Wei and Jin. "Mr. Zhu generously accepted me, but he did not stipulate that I must study Wei Jin with him, but allowed me to do Song Shi, in fact, he was under a lot of pressure, but until I defended my doctoral dissertation in 1998, I didn't know that he was under a lot of pressure." Zhao Dongmei said that at that time, there were not many doctors in the history department of Peking University, and one doctor would do a defense, and the seven or eight supervisors of the defense committee were all experts, but she was not nervous at all. Zhao Dongmei remembers that at that time, the chairman of the defense committee asked her seven questions on the spot, and she was very sincere, saying that she did not know if she did not know. She successfully passed the defense and stayed on to teach. It wasn't until one day when he talked about it that Mr. Zhu Zongbin told her that he was counting questions one by one, "I realized how nervous he was at that time."
Zhao Dongmei
Teach ancient Chinese history at Peking University
There is a big difference between doing academics and teaching. Zhao Dongmei's undergraduate, master's and doctoral dissertations are all about the history of the Song Dynasty, that is to say, she is a scholar specializing in the field of Song history, and her daily work is to write papers. Peking University's course on ancient Chinese history is divided into two sections, the Sui Dynasty, according to the Broken Dynasty, bounded by the Sui Dynasty, which was taught by a teacher before the Sui Dynasty, and taught by the teacher in the direction of Song History, that is, the history from the Sui Dynasty to 1840. Zhao Dongmei wrote in his new work "Law and The People's Heart: The Interaction between Man and the System in the Imperial Period" that "the thesis was written all the way down, and it was always swirled between 960 and 1279... When I stayed in school, 'only a doctorate can teach at a university' has become a mandatory rule, teaching needs to be 'knowledgeable', the knowledge should be wide, and the 'doctor' is actually an expert in a small field. In Zhao Dongmei's view, the doctor has received solid training in the systematic discipline system in the process of becoming an expert, and his understanding of the discipline is beyond the average person, but when lecturing, he must liberate himself from the state of the expert.
There was once a popular saying on the Internet that it is difficult to produce "everyone" in contemporary times. Indeed, the general history talents and even general knowledge talents referred to by Zhao Dongmei's "general people" seem to be gradually drifting away in the increasingly subdivided academic research field today. However, to teach Peking University students ancient Chinese history, it really needs talents who read a lot of books, know how to read ancient and modern, and connect East and West. "It's like I've just become an 'expert on needle noses' and suddenly have to face the whole world." Zhao Dongmei has since "read" and read all kinds of books, which may not increase the output of papers, but can greatly increase the freedom and self-confidence of lectures.
"It is normal for a newly graduated doctor to lecture not very well, I used to think that lecturing is based on talent, as long as the eloquence is good, but as I get older, the experience of lecturing increases, and I find that I have to face these children who have no professional knowledge to lecture, in fact, there is a process of learning and experience, which is a process of continuous dialogue with students." Zhao Dongmei sometimes joked with students before class, and everyone "learned while it was hot", which meant that she spent a lot of time preparing for class, until she was still preparing for class a moment before walking on the podium. "It doesn't have that much practical use, but I only have enough to stand on that podium."
At present, Zhao Dongmei teaches several courses: "Study of Tang and Song Dynasty Official Historical Materials" for graduate students, "Special Topics in Song History" and "History of Chinese Historiography" for undergraduate students in the Department of History, and "History of Social Life" for students of other departments, which is not an easy teaching task for a doctoral supervisor. At Peking University, "grade points" are very important, and students often ask which teacher has "loose hands" and "water" in the curriculum, and can spend a small amount of energy to get a high score. But Zhao Dongmei is by no means such a teacher, she will give really good homework high scores, but really bad, and will not spare her subordinates. Yes, Peking University also has students who fail the exam, some of them are not qualified in the make-up exam, come to Zhao Dongmei to intercede, Zhao Dongmei directly asked: Why should I lower the standard for you? Is this fair to hard-working students? You can have a poor foundation, but you must work hard, because I don't want to joke about any of the courses, and I don't want to let students "mix" casually. Zhao Dongmei was still a little guilty at first, but soon she found a tacit understanding with the students, and she would say "ugly words" in the first class: "I will 'scare' them, the teacher can provide you with a lot of help, but if you don't work hard, you usually don't come to class, and you don't pass the make-up exam, don't plead with me, I won't give you a bottom." What I can do for my students is to keep questioning and asking the most demanding questions. ”
Jingyuan The old history department of Peking University is located
Keep the soul of historiography
When Zhao Dongmei first entered Peking University, Mr. Deng Guangming and Mr. Zhou Liang, the history of the Song Dynasty, although they no longer lectured due to their advanced age, they were still taking doctoral students. Mr. Deng trained a number of historical talents, such as the later "seventh and eighth grades" such as Deng Xiaonan, Yan Buke, Rong Xinjiang, etc. to become a group of scholars in the history department of Peking University (later they also stayed in the history department of Peking University to teach, and when I was studying at Peking University, Yan Buke's school-wide general course "History of Ancient Chinese Political System" has become one of the most popular courses for Peking University students many times, and sometimes the steps of the ladder classroom are full of people). In the following ten years, Zhang Fan, Luo Xin, etc. trained by the History Department of Peking University, as well as Zhao Dongmei's classmates He Jin, Niu Ke, and Li Wei, have become the backbone of current historical research.
Zhao Dongmei's mentor, Mr. Zhu Zongbin, is 91 years old this year, and his students and students have become professors and doctoral supervisors, cultivating the next generation of historians. Zhao Dongmei still remembered that Mr. Zhu's board book was quite beautiful, attracting many students from the Chinese Department next door to observe, just to see his board book. Zhao Dongmei said with a little sadness that Mr. Zhao bought a lot of books in his life, and was originally ready to read them after retirement, but now his physical condition is not very good, and his eyes are not very good, "He realized about five years ago that he might never be able to finish reading these books, and began to find a place to settle for them (these books)." Mr. Zhu wants to reward these books to those he thinks are really interested in learning, especially students who like institutional history. "We modern people may measure a person's success may be whether he can live in a big house, Mr. Zhu still lives in the school house in the eighties of the last century, he did not buy a house himself, Mr. Zhu's salary is not low, but he did not buy a house, all the income is used to buy books, buy materials, do research." But he was really happy. Zhao Dongmei said.
"As a former Peking University student and now a teacher, I still especially want to say to my students that if I really want to learn, this is a 'long run'." Zhao Dongmei believes that today's students "began to compete from kindergarten, until going to college or tight", although today compared with thirty years ago, whether it is the teacher's teaching level or the students' mastery of knowledge, it is actually more excellent, but students need to judge what is really good.
Department of History, Peking University (New Building) Under the Willow Tree
The way university history is studied is also different. "In fact, after I entered Peking University, my freshman and sophomore years were not ideal, because high school history studies rely more on memory, but college is different." Zhao Dongmei said that many people's impression of Peking University students is that they have good grades and high scores, but one of the big changes in college study is that "you used to be so tightly managed, and now you are your own, you don't have to follow others." Peking University also has failed students, there are also postponed graduation, of course, there are also many champions, what is a good student, I think the real 'good', is to turn hard work into a habit. Good grades may not be the biggest challenge for "good students", knowing what they want to do, and having independent thinking and excellent discriminating skills are the more important qualities in learning. Peking University has many excellent students, but it is true that not everyone is suitable for studying history. Zhao Dongmei told the author that she had "dissuaded" some students who hoped to study with her for graduate school, "History is a stupid subject, it is difficult to 'flicker', some children are not willing to work hard, I told him, you have to spend time reading historical materials, he said he did not have time", Zhao Dongmei said, some students have time to participate in social activities, other aspects are also excellent, "but it is indeed not suitable for history of character." Fortunately, more and more students choose history simply because they love history.
Peking University's history department is strong, but "history" itself is not a "hot" discipline today, on the contrary, studying history may be more like sitting on a cold bench. Since zhao Dongmei entered Peking University in the 1980s, the number of students enrolled in the history department of Peking University has not increased dramatically. "I think there are some things that must be 'kept', things that belong to the soul, 'holding on to the remnants and keeping the deficiencies.'" Zhao Dongmei said: "Keeping" is not not not to innovate or not to open up, but to stick to the most core thing of history itself: Everything starts from historical materials and seeks truth from facts, and it is a step-by-step step out of the way; this is the soul of history; those who "keep" must have a very hard "core," and they must be able to slow down and be willing to make stupid efforts.
Historians are "smashing the field"
Mr. Zhu Zongbin's masterpiece "Research on the System of Prime Ministers in the Southern and Northern Dynasties of the Two Han Dynasties, Wei and Jin" gave Zhao Dongmei's thinking on "what is history". By observing the development and changes of the zai chancellor system, Mr. Zhu wrote about how the ancient Chinese emperors and zai ministers cooperated with each other to rule for thousands of years. In Zhao Dongmei's view, the historical view of conflict and confrontation has a great influence, and when we observe a pair of relations, it is often easy to see the opposing side, but rarely see the interdependent, interest and common side. Mr. Zhu offers a more moderate and rational view of history that is more in line with reality, "and this reversal of this view of history is more important to me than concrete knowledge."
The first time Zhao Dongmei heard these views was in the "History of Ancient Chinese Political System" class at Peking University, where she was "blinded at that time" because "this is different from what we learned before"! But when she thought about it, maybe that was the way things really were. "Specific analysis of specific problems, back to the historical situation at that time, dead to the historical materials, digging up details, in order to see the truth." This is the way Mr. Zhu taught me to solve the problem of history. Zhao Dongmei wrote in her new work "Law and People's Hearts".
History needs to be rigorous, but historians are full of personality, and Zhao Dongmei is a scholar with full personality, and many of her views have distinct personal colors. In our conversation, she did not shy away from some views that differed from public perception, and in her opinion, if some evidence was found to be contrary to the research conclusions of previous generations of experts and scholars, the first reaction should not be fear, but excitement. For Zhao Dongmei, finding problems, creating doubts, checking whether there have been such studies before, if not, "then this is where our research begins."
Zhao Dongmei recommended some historical works at the end of "Fadu and People's Hearts", one of which is the scholar Mr. Yang Ne's "Qiu Chu Ji" One Word to Stop Killing Examination" Examination, she believes that Mr. Yang has done "I have been doing, but I have not done so good work", that is, "breaking lies". In her view, in the past novels, films, television, operas and other literary and artistic works, there are many erroneous narratives of history or folk tales that are falsely spread, and these "folk memories" are often more marketable and widely circulated than serious history. However, on closer examination, many of them are logically confused and do not conform to historical facts, and "the first thing historians do when they come out of the ivory tower and come into contact with the reckless red dust is to 'break the lie'."
Zhao Dongmei's view, history to distinguish between factual statements and value judgments, some people do not understand history at all, or only vague understanding, this kind of judgment is meaningless: we do not judge what we do not understand, history is to teach people to think, not to teach people to memorize, people who really want to learn history, to open these pores in concepts, do not think that someone can give you a standard answer, do not stick to dogma. "First you have to open up, be prepared to accept, we think together, and secondly, some of the views of the current mainstream scholars may be different from the histories you previously remembered, in other words, what you have been taught may be wrong. Third, you have to think about what historical data it is based on, and whether the process of derivation can stand. Zhao Dongmei said that this is the way of thinking about history.
Zhao Dongmei believes that there must be a reason for lying, sometimes because of interests, sometimes because of whitewashing, sometimes it is the addition and polishing of later stories, and the historian's "breaking the lie" is to use serious text analysis to tell the reader how the lie is formed and what the truth is. "Serious historians often smash the field," Zhao Dongmei said, adding that if readers disagree with scholars' conclusions, they can also start from the historical data and compete with historians.
"Law and the Human Heart: The Interaction between Man and The System in the Imperial Period" by Zhao Dongmei citic publishing group
Behind the "atypical" Sima Guang
Zhao Dongmei is sometimes an "atypical" historian — a book written for seven or eight years, a paper in a computer for two or three years. "I am proud to say that so far I have not written anything that is not to my liking." Several of Zhao Dongmei's recently published works, "Law and the Human Heart- The Interaction between Man and the System in the Imperial Period", "Human Fireworks - Everyday and Life Buried in History", "The Change of the Great Song Dynasty, 1063-1086", including her previous works "Sima Guang and His Time", "Qianqiu Is Not Talking Kou Zhun", etc. are not typical historical works, and her early works "Martial Arts Wandering - Martial Arts and Martial Arts in Ancient China" and "Between Wen and Wu: A Study of The Military Elected Officials of the Northern Song Dynasty" are written in different ways, but they are wonderful.
The Change of the Great Song Dynasty, 1063-1086 by Zhao Dongmei, Guangxi Normal University Press
"The Change of the Great Song Dynasty, 1063-1086" is a work of "breaking lies", this book begins with the ascension of Song Yingzong to the throne, talks about Wang Anshi's change of law when Emperor Shenzong, and then to the death of Sima Guang in the early days of Emperor Zhezong, and the famous ministers of the Middle Northern Song Dynasty appeared on stage one by one, Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, Su Shi, Ouyang Xiu, Han Qi, Wen Yanbo, Fan Zhen... Zhao Dongmei ostensibly tells the story of the group portrait of the scholar in the glorious era of the scholars, "the world is worried and worried, and the world is happy and happy", in fact, it writes how the Song Dynasty was ruled by the monarchs and subjects, the century-old Taiping fell into a vicious division, decay and decline, how the emperor and the ministers were collectively disoriented, how freedom of speech was destroyed, how the ancestral law fell apart - how the Song Dynasty changed from a rich and dynamic era step by step to an era of many humiliations, this period of history, It is likely to be completely different from what we imagined.
The book, together with Sima Guang and His Time, which previously tells about the Renzong Dynasty, portrays an unexpected image of Sima Guang. In Zhao Dongmei's view, the evaluation of Sima Guang in later generations was polarized, and the public's perception of him was relatively simple - when he was a child, he "smashed the cylinder", and when he was old, he opposed Wang Anshi's change of law, and wrote a "Zizhi Tongjian" in the middle. But the real Sima Guang is undoubtedly more complex and more charismatic, Zhao Dongmei's Sima Guang's personal fate is entangled with the changes of the times, becoming a hero who tries his best but can't do anything most of the time. After the book was published, some people objected, believing that Zhao Dongmei was "too partial to Sima Guang", and she smiled bitterly at this. Zhao Dongmei wrote in "The Change of the Great Song Dynasty, 1063-1086" that many events and characters in historical events seem to be well known, in fact, people only understand a simple outline from the beginning to the end, and even how a specific beginning goes to a specific end, how the "various forces" in the middle process choose and interact with each other, we know very little, and the task of modern historical researchers is to expose the details as much as possible and show the process through details, because only by entering the details can we "see". In the historical materials of various parties as evidence, in fact, it is not entirely true and cannot be believed at will, because the predecessors "literally recorded" and "actually happened" may even be in opposite directions. Zhao Dongmei gave an example, Su Shi and Su Rui have written some words for Sima Guang and Wang Anshi, but the "construction" of these words deviates from the truth to a certain extent, there is the creator's selfishness, but why there is selfishness, what is the logic behind it, this is what Zhao Dongmei wants to explain in the book. When discovering all kinds of contradictory materials, it is a good time for historians to "break the lie"—only by breaking through the lies of the text and excluding the bias of writing can we get close to the truth.
"Sima Guang and His Time" by Zhao Dongmei Life, Reading, and Xinzhi Triptych Bookstore
What's so hard about writing history?
What is a good historical work? Zhao Dongmei agrees with another historian, Yang Kuisong, that one must have sufficient historical support and clear citations, the other is to have full sympathy and understanding for the complexity and aspects of history, and the third is to be able to give today's people room for inspiration and in-depth thinking. Zhao Dongmei said: "I always believe that a good book should inspire rather than end thinking", because "a person who is willing to read history, who is willing to give time to history reading, must be a very thoughtful and intelligent person, and he will get what he wants."
The interesting part of history lies in chance, zhao Dongmei's view, we sometimes can't help but feel the shaping power of "accident" on historical development. For example, in "The Change of the Great Song Dynasty, 1063-1086", Zhao Dongmei wrote about a figure zhang Fangping, who was not well known to the public, who was also a financial expert, and was the reform candidate originally selected by Song Shenzong, and it happened that his father died when he was closest to power, and he could only go home to keep filial piety, and Shenzong had to find another talent, which made him notice Wang Anshi. Zhao Dongmei could not help but write: If Zhang Fangping's father was not so long-lived, or if he died after his son was appointed deputy prime minister, would Wang Anshi still be used by Emperor Shenzong? However, Zhao Dongmei, who studies institutional history, obviously does not only pay attention to "chance", but what is more effective in writing history is to write about the institutional and structural factors behind "chance", which is the system and culture. How the politics of the Northern Song Dynasty went from tolerance to despotism is the more important thing behind the stories of Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, and Su Shi.
Zhao Dongmei writes history with ups and downs, peaks and turns, strong empathy ability, and is also very good at restoring historical scenes, allowing readers to immerse themselves in the scene and invest in feelings, this kind of "popular history writing ability" can be sought. Zhao Dongmei believes that "many historical materials themselves neither lack scenes nor emotions, and all kinds of careful thinking", history is originally very good.
Many of Zhao Dongmei's views are different from the public's perception of history, and in the Internet age, it seems that it is impossible not to read the comments of readers. Zhao Dongmei will watch, she is still very calm to brush, read out, such as: "Who is this person, what Peking University professor", and then said a little helplessly: "I have been 'sprayed' N times." For the comment attacks on the Internet, Zhao Dongmei explained very carefully: "I don't need you to fully accept my point of view, but I am so broken and kneaded to argue one thing, if you refute, at least look at the material I have read, point out whether there is any use or wrong, but also find new material to argue your point of view, to have a scientific attitude, rather than immediately scolding, right?" ”
For lectures to the public, in Zhao Dongmei's view, "it is much more difficult than lecturing to Peking University students" because "the public's questions are the most difficult to answer." In her view, this is not only to maintain the bottom line and professional level of historians, to give the public real reliable knowledge, but also to use the language that the public can understand, in a simple and simple way to disseminate knowledge. However, Zhao Dongmei is already a confident and mature scholar, and she said of the once influential historical work "Fifteen Years of Wanli": "When it entered China, the Chinese historical circles could not contribute such a detailed and free-thinking work... As a fan of "Fifteen Years of Wanli" and a descendant historian of Huang Renyu, I can responsibly tell you that from the 1980s to the present, after more than 30 years of research, the historical community has been able to provide you with a richer knowledge than "Fifteen Years of Wanli". ”