Does the gender quota system on the board of directors undermine equal rights?

Women's professional participation in China is high, but the proportion of women on boards is much lower than the global level. What are the subjective and objective constraints on the slow and tortuous process of women moving from the front line of the workplace to the decision-making level? How to open up the path for women to enter the decision-making level? The gender quota system for the board of directors, which has been implemented by more and more companies, has also raised more and more questions: Does this move to achieve equal rights undermine fairness? There is also an equally important question: How can women in decision-making have a stronger influence?

On December 8, at the 2023 Fortune MPW Women's Summit held in Shanghai, Xie Jingwei, executive editor of Fortune New Media, and several representatives from decision-makers and management discussed the theme of "'more' and 'stronger' in decision-making".

The following is an edited transcript of the conversation.

December 8, 2023, Shanghai. Fortune MPW Women's Summit 2023. From left to right: Cui Jisong, Co-founder, Chairman and CEO of InnoCare, Zhu Hong, Global Vice President and Chairman of Accenture Greater China, Cai Jinqing, President of Kering Greater China, Yuan Xin, President of Microsoft China, and Xie Jingwei, Executive Editor-in-Chief of Fortune New Media.

Xie Jingwei:

Progress has been made in recent years both internationally and nationally in terms of gender diversity at the decision-making and management levels. What are the observations from Accenture, and are there some representative data?

Zhu Hong:

In the past few years, although the caliber and data standards of statistics in various countries have been slightly different, on the whole, in the past 10 years, women should have made progress in entering the top and decision-making levels. However, the pace of development may still be far from what we expect. For example, in the Fortune Global 500, the proportion of female CEOs is 5.8%, and only 29 CEOs are women, and the average proportion of female board members is only 20% globally.

Zhu Hong, global vice president and chairman of Accenture Greater China

Recently, we at Accenture also conducted a global survey of professionals in more than 10 countries. Female practitioners still have a strong demand for entry into the top and decision-making levels, accounting for about 70%. But when we asked about how quickly they were promoted and how confident they were about to get promoted, the gap between women and overall respondents was about 3 to 4 percent. How to create a stress-free and resistance-free workplace environment is very important to help professional women achieve their career promotion requirements.

Xie Jingwei: There is still a long way to go, so we need to open up pathways for more women to enter decision-making and management. What are the most effective initiatives your companies have taken in this regard?

Yuan Xin: I'm speaking from the inside and outside. Microsoft has a well-established internal human resources system, and we will ensure that there are enough outstanding female candidates in the promotion system. We host a variety of training and community events each year to ensure that women receive the right amount of support during their career ascent.

Yuan Xin, President of Microsoft China

From an external point of view, we are also opening our doors to Xi, hoping to attract more excellent external candidates. At this time, it will be found that women are actually relatively shy. We've done a lot of trying to attract external female candidates, and I think a good way to do that is that all of our business line leaders have an obligation, or a prescribed action, to keep in touch with some of the best female candidates on a long-term basis. On the one hand, it lets us know where the best women are, and on the other hand, it is also constantly up to date with the candidate's latest developments at Microsoft, so that when she is considering a job change, we will be in each other's field of vision.

In society, as Mr. Zhu said just now, we also need to create a more friendly atmosphere, so that women can stand up more bravely and find opportunities that suit them.

Cai Jinqing:

Kering is a luxury group with more than 47,000 employees worldwide, of which 64% are women. Our female customers are also an important consumer force for luxury brands, especially now that many independent women are paying for themselves.

Cai Jinqing, President of Kering Greater China

Kering has been a pioneer in diversity and gender equality since an early age. We believe that diversity and equality are the source of our creativity and innovation, so we attach great importance to it strategically, conceptually, and culturally. We signed the Pluralism Charter in 2004 and were one of the first signatories to the United Nations Charter of Principles for the Empowerment of Women. We have 46% women on our board, including Emma Watson, who is a talented young actress and particularly active in environmental protection, so we asked her to serve as an independent director on the board and chair of the sustainability committee.

We also have great female CEOs in our brands, such as Francesca Bellettini, who was previously President and CEO of Yves Saint Laurent, and who was promoted to Deputy Group CEO this year, setting an example for our industry and our employees. Many outstanding women have played an important role in the luxury industry.

Zhu Hong:

Like Kering, Accenture has been an advocate for gender equality and diversity, and we have more than 700,000 employees worldwide, of whom 47 percent are women and 29 percent of our senior executives are women. The proportion of the 18,000 employees in Greater China is higher than in the world.

Jingwei Xie: Why is Greater China doing better in this area?

Zhu Hong:

We have also been the result of many generations of colleagues and leaders, and of course we have some programs for women's empowerment, especially one-on-one mentoring programs. For example, I ask myself to coach 15 to 20 employees above the director level every year, and I talk to them one-on-one. For most of them, I will continue to be a mentor for them for 3 to 5 years. Not just myself, but all female executives have to do the same.

In my journey as a mentor, I made an interesting discovery. Some younger women said that she respected and admired her female role models, but did not want to be her. Why? Because it was as if this role model was working all day, sacrificing personal and family happiness for professional success. But when we look back, it's likely that many female executives only show their professional side and hide their personality. So you should present a three-dimensional self to your team, which will give your team more confidence.

Cui Jisong, Co-founder, Chairman and CEO of InnoCare

Cui Jisong:

We're a high-tech biopharma company with a majority of women out of more than 1,000 employees, more than 30% in management, and 50% on the board, so we're doing really well with gender diversity, and we have a lot of female PhDs on our side who are very successful. With us, women don't have to sacrifice anything. Of course, for some young women, she has the needs of family, pregnancy, and childbirth, and we also give them a relatively high tolerance, and after returning from the special period, they are still very capable women.

Therefore, in a company, the leader, the mentor and his direct supervisor are very important for the development of women, and they should understand that women sometimes have special needs, and they should try to meet and encourage women to continue to do better.

Xie Jingwei: Gender diversity is a consensus, and behind this is not only for equal rights, but also for some business logic. When it comes to the luxury industry specifically, what is the business rationale behind the increasing number of women on the boards of luxury groups in recent years?

Cai Jinqing:

A diverse and inclusive culture is the source of our industry's survival, because we are creative, we need to be imaginative, and Kering's credo is to "create imagination". Imagination and creativity can only be generated in a process of collision of particularly diverse, inclusive, and different perspectives. So from the nature of the industry, there is a strong demand for gender diversity. From the perspective of the market, women are an important consumer force. Therefore, having a female perspective at the board level can bring the most cutting-edge market insights, innovation opportunities and potentials from the strategic level to the business operation.

In Europe, there is a growing legal and regulatory requirement for board diversity. I think France is the best in Europe in this regard, and by 2023, the average proportion of women on the boards of the top 120 largest French companies will be around 46%, which is a perfect state. This is due to a regulation introduced in 2021: French companies must have more than 40% women on their boards. Other countries, such as Germany and the United States, do not have such strong laws and regulations in this regard, so progress will be a little slower.

Xie Jingwei: At this point, let's talk about the gender quota system for the board of directors. Many companies have implemented a gender quota system on their board of directors, requiring about 30% of female directors to be on board. But some argue that this seemingly affirmative action actually breaks fairness. What do you think?

Hara Kin:

There have been some changes in my opinion. When I was growing up, I didn't feel that I was discriminated against, and I didn't think it was particularly important to occupy a seat, but then I came into contact with people from all walks of life, and in fact, I would find that if you haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean that others haven't experienced it, you haven't felt it, it's not that it hasn't happened, and more and more data tells us that gender inequality is a fact.

What should we do when we realize inequality? My thinking about this has also changed. At first, I thought it didn't matter whether there was a 30% or 40% ratio, whether it was set or not, but it was important to try to face up to the problem. Human beings have a history of 6-7 million years, human civilization is only 6-7 thousand years, and it is only 200 years old to really enter the discussion of the issue of equal rights between men and women. So on a longer timeline, my original instinct was that if I couldn't solve a lot of related problems at the purely ideological level, it would be more difficult for me to solve a bias problem that superimposes biomorphic differences. So on a practical level, this is not the most important problem for me to solve.

But then my mind slowly shifted. It's not enough to be aware of the problem, you have to take action or you will be stuck forever. If there is action, in the end this problem may not be solved in your time, but it will be solved slowly. So there needs to be systems to drive action. This system is controversial, imperfect, and may be unfair to some people, but the implementation of this system shows that we have not only faced up to the problem, but also started to take action, which is the most important message to be sent.

Cai Jinqing:

Yes, this gender quota system is still important when there is a need for change in the early stages. It is most effective to guide enterprises in this direction from the perspective of laws and regulations.

However, the quota system is not the most important thing, because we need to create a social culture not only to cultivate the internal culture of the company. Kering has a Women In Motion program, which awards awards to women artists in the creative field. At this year's Cannes Film Festival, we presented this award to Michelle Yeoh. I was there at the time, and I was particularly touched by her words, to the effect that "I started from an unequal position in the film industry for more than 40 years, and finally came to this day after 40 years, so that everyone can recognize our women's contributions to film and creativity." I used to feel like I was working hard, but now I don't. Once this door is opened, I want you all to line up to follow me, and don't leave me waiting for you here. ”

I think it's important to have role models, cultures, and platforms where people can see the contributions, achievements, and talents of women in various industries. So the quota system is not the most important thing.

Jingwei Xie: We know that Accenture is very serious about affirmative action numbers. But if someone questions you and thinks the board gender quota is unfair, how do you convince them? 

Zhu Hong:

In fact, it is not only the board of directors, but also when it comes to promotion, regardless of the level and position, the same problem will be encountered. It's true that Accenture has a gender percentage requirement for promotion, and in practice, we hear male executives, and even female executives, question: Does this gender quota system lead to discrimination against men, especially since sometimes companies will make adjustments to allow women who don't seem particularly qualified to be on the board of directors in order to meet this quota. This has sparked controversy.

But why do we have such a controversy? The root cause is that there is a problem with women's promotion channels and opportunities. There is indeed some "deliberate" effort that needs to be made before the problem can be solved. I think gender quotas are KPIs that drive us to do the right things for the right purpose. Don't worry about the process. After I said this, the skeptical people were relieved and willing to accept such a system. France is a good example of this, where women are over-represented on boards, and women are more mature and able to demonstrate their abilities in the workplace.

Xie Jingwei: Yes, in the process of zigzag progress, it is inevitable that some of the so-called fairness will be sacrificed. Mr. Cui, if you have two board candidates in your company, one male and one female, and this man is slightly more capable, how to choose?

Cui Jisong:

As the chairman of the board of directors, if I was really asked to choose, I think the needs of the board of directors are the first, and the second is the size of the ability, or it has to be fair. Of course, the women in our company are very successful and have received a lot of encouragement, and the board of directors does not have this quota system, but half of them are women.

In addition, I would like to emphasize that the development of women should start from an early stage, and not promote them in a tendentious manner, because the woman who is suddenly promoted will also feel uncomfortable.

Xie Jingwei: How can the development of technology promote the emergence of more women in decision-making and management?

Hara Kin:

I believe that technology will open up more opportunities for more women. We have seen that after the advent of the AIGC era, many Silicon Valley startups have many outstanding women in the core team members. The high-tech industry has to face more new things, so gender differences are not very important in this industry. Such a soil will allow more women to have opportunities. And now, with the blessing of various technological means, it is easier for women to start a business and make your ideas come true. Therefore, science and technology advocates equal rights, makes AI popularized and universalized, and empowers everyone more.

Jingwei Tse: If a woman wanted to compete for a board position, what key advice would you give her?

Cui Jisong:

My advice is that she should meet her own ability, and ask herself if she is competent.

Cai Jinqing:

I am a graduate of Wellesley College, an all-girls school with a mission to provide the best education for women who can contribute to the world. I've always kept the words Make A Difference in mind. As I weigh my options, these words are the credo that guides me. Leaders must not only be strong, but more importantly, able to contribute. So when you want to be on the board, you have to have a clear position for yourself: what can I contribute to the board, to the company, to society?

Zhu Hong:

Although a lot of our conversation today revolves around the board of directors, I still hope that all women will have higher career aspirations and career aspirations. I'd like to build on Accenture's theme on International Women's Day last year, "Be without limits." In fact, there is no difference between men and women in their ability to work, and we must be confident. If each of us can take a step forward, this group of women can take a big step forward.

Hara Kin:

Kant said that "every man is an end and not a means". If you want to be on the board, you have to do it, whether it works or what it does for the company. These ideas are insignificant in the context of human development as a whole, and I don't want to frame the meaning of women in terms of the concept of an organization. Let it go, turn what we believe into reality, and leave it to future generations how to evaluate us. (Fortune Chinese Network)

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