According to CCTV, Professor Jiang Ping, former president and tenured professor of China University of Political Science and Law, known as the "conscience" of the legal community, passed away in Beijing on December 19, 2023, at the age of 94. This is an excerpt from an interview originally published in the Beijing News to commemorate the occasion.
"My conscience, my conscience, tells me what to do, and I won't disobey it.
—— Jiangping"
Professor Jiang Ping has always been a well-respected intellectual in the academic community, and has devoted his life to advocating for the process of rule of law in China. In the Beijing News Chinese Book Year Selection (2007), Professor Jiang Ping's book "All I Can Do Is Scream" was not selected as the final book of the year, but its importance is still widely recognized by the academic community, and the Beijing News reporter interviewed him afterwards.
My "scream" has four meanings
Beijing News: The title of "All I Can Do Is Scream" is very low-key, is this related to your past setbacks?
Jiang Ping: The title of this book is a sentence I have said, and it is not related to the setbacks I have suffered. I use the word "scream" for four meanings.
First, from the perspective of my professional identity, I am an educator, and professors should shout their own voices and have their own ideas and concepts. Those who are officials have the concept of being officials, and professors have the concept of professors. Intellectuals have nothing else but a mouth, and if they have a mouth, they have to speak and make their own voice.
Second, you can understand that by using the word "shout", it means to have a voice, to have your own independent voice, to be able to make his voice and express his freedom of opinion. It should be said that China is still lacking in this regard. If the opinions of the common people cannot be fully expressed, different opinions, and different voices cannot be expressed, this is very abnormal. Also, people's voices should not be silenced, as the situation will only get worse. So, in that sense, people need to speak out in any era. If there is no different voice in a country, but only one voice, it only proves that the crisis is covered up and there is a high probability that it will erupt.
Third, from the perspective of the rule of law, what I do is to fight for the rule of law, and when the students of the school asked me to write an inscription for the 20th anniversary of my return to school, I inscribed the words "rule of law in the world". The only ideal of those of us who practice the rule of law is to be able to rule the world, and the world can really be built in accordance with the concept of the rule of law. However, the current situation is still far from our ideal of the rule of law. I believe that the rule of law and the market economy must be linked. The market economy is economic freedom, equality, and democracy, and as far as the current situation is concerned, our rule of law is much worse. Basically, it is still the rule of man. The rule of law should be the antithesis of the rule of man. In this case, I think we should shout more for the rule of law and call for it.
Fourth, there is also a historical background to the publication of this book, that is, the great controversy over our reform and opening up. In this case, this cry actually has a purpose, that is, to shout for China's reform and opening up and for China's ideological emancipation. I believe that there is still a need for an ideological emancipation movement in China. Therefore, there is a need for more appeals.
I'm not a jurist by nature
Beijing News: You have talked about the mission and responsibility of legal professionals, what are the main issues that your generation is committed to?
Jiang Ping: The characteristic of our generation is that they do not go so deep in their own professional fields, and I once said in the "Seventy Self-Statements" that I am not a jurist in essence, and this is the truth. Because the mission of our generation is not to make the writings on a certain aspect of the law so deep and thorough, but more to establish a new concept of law. In this sense, it is the most fundamental mission of our generation to reverse this concept and base the whole law on something modern and common to all countries in the world, rather than to produce a profound work in a specific field of law.
Beijing News: In other words, emancipating law as a political tool as an independent discipline has its own laws and attributes, rather than being a slave.
Jiang Ping: Yes, so to speak, it is very important to turn the law into an indispensable factor in the political life of the country, the rules for governing the country.
Practice should not be divorced from the right theory
Beijing News: You are fulfilling your mission and shouldering your responsibilities with your own actions. What do you think about the most in this practice?
Jiang Ping: As long as I think that my conscience, my conscience tells me what to do, I will not disobey it. I did. As for how much I can do, it's not up to me to decide. Because I am not "in the court", not in an official position. It's hard for me to imagine what I have to say. I don't think what I say will be done right away, and I don't think everything I'm saying is right. My conscience tells me what to do, and I try to do it. This is also the mission entrusted to intellectuals by an era.
Beijing News: What do you think is the mission of the younger generation of lawyers, and what are your expectations for them as a senior lawyer?
Jiang Ping: I always believe that legal professionals should put the concept of the rule of law into action. Judges, you must do a good job as judges, and you must reflect the current concept in every case you handle; as a legislator, you must reflect this concept in every law you enact.
Because after four years of undergraduate training, plus three years of master's degree, or three years of doctorate, what he has learned is already in the modern concept of the rule of law. But now, when it comes to reality, some people give up on these. This is the biggest problem.
Therefore, some people's theories believe that all schools talk about is theory, and China's reality is out of touch with theory. I often ask, is the disconnect between China's reality and theory because the correct theory is divorced from the wrong reality, or is the correct reality separated from the wrong theory?
I think there may be both cases, but the most fundamental thing is that practice is divorced from the right theory.
There are some things that are not strange in reality, and no university will teach students such things. However, in reality, this phenomenon happens from time to time. We now have many people who, as soon as they put it into practice, are influenced by some wrong things, are entangled in China's interpersonal relationships, all kinds of illegal phenomena, and find excuses for their own retreat. Those who do not dare to persist in changing some undesirable phenomena in society with the legal concepts they should learn are often compromised, often in the same stream, and in the end some of them are different from the spirit of the law that they should master, or even run counter to what they have learned. This is very sad.
That's why I say it's better to stick to these legal concepts that we should adhere to.
There are three bottom lines that legal people should abide by
Beijing News: You particularly emphasized the three bottom lines of legal professionals, one is the bottom line of ideas, one is the bottom line of professional ethics, and the other is the bottom line of life standards. However, in the current situation, it may be difficult to stick to these three bottom lines.
Jiang Ping: (sighs heavily) Alas, the bottom line of life is actually the bottom line of morality. No matter what, we should also have a moral bottom line as human beings. The bottom line of the profession is also the conscience of the profession, and my conscience tells me what to do. Doctors must have a doctor's conscience, if you give me a red envelope and I will operate on you, then I am no longer qualified to practice. These three bottom lines represent three levels.
Beijing News: When there is a conflict between the professional ethics of legal professionals and the public interest, how should they deal with it?
Jiang Ping: The law is immoral. Let me give you an example, is it okay for a lawyer to defend an alleged embezzler? Of course, it is okay, and the lawyer should try to find conclusive evidence to defend him. If the alleged embezzler is clearly guilty of a crime, and the lawyer insists that he did not commit the crime, then the lawyer has violated the requirements of ethics and ethics. Another example is a businessman who was convicted of false VAT invoices. Our experts are arguing, isn't it? The tax department said at first that he did not constitute a crime, because it is very difficult to issue false VAT invoices. Well, there is nothing wrong with the lawyer defending the businessman.
Public opinion supervision and media conscience
Beijing News: You studied journalism in your early years and later studied law, what do you think of the relationship between the two?
Jiang Ping: The difference between the press and the law is that the press is freer, while the law is under the constraints of the provisions. I love to study journalism, and when I first chose this major, I admired the title of "uncrowned king". The law is different, you have to strictly follow the letter of the law, you can't go beyond it. However, both have one thing in common, and that is the pursuit of justice. The goal of the law should be to pursue fairness and justice, although it sometimes does not, and the press is also a pursuit of fairness and justice, which is also too sad if the news does not speak for ordinary people.
Constitutionalism has two aspects
Beijing News: Someone once said that constitutionalism is in charge of the government. From the perspective of a legal person, do you agree with this generalization?
Jiang Ping: This is only one aspect of constitutionalism, from the constitution of the country, or from the beginning of the Magna Carta of the United Kingdom, of course, it is to limit the power of the government and the power of the king. Constitutionalism is about giving power to the people, and the power of the government and the king cannot do whatever they want. Why do I pay so many taxes? I have to have a voice in parliament, in government. In this sense, the constitution itself is the distribution of political power, but it should not be forgotten that there is a second aspect of constitutionalism, which is the power of the people. So, the constitution of any country actually solves two problems. One is how to distribute state power, and the other is the power of the people. Is it a presidential system or a prime minister's system? How much power does the parliament have? Is it a constitutional monarchy or a republic? There must be checks and balances on power, and here we are talking about public power. The second aspect is, the rights of the people, what rights do the people have over the government? Do I have freedom of speech, association, the right to vote and the right to stand for election, these basic human rights must be guaranteed. It's even better in terms of these two aspects.
Beijing News: When there is a conflict between private and public rights, individuals are always in a weak position, how should this situation be changed?
Jiang Ping: This problem is indeed quite obvious. We have a set of administrative litigation mechanisms in the courts, and you can sue. Then there is the responsibility of social groups that we just talked about, and our unconstitutional review. In the United States, private rights are violated by public rights, and they all go to the Human Rights Commission. That's the federal courts, which are constitutional. European countries also attach great importance to the protection of human rights in the design of their systems. In this regard, institutional design is very important.
Social power cannot be ignored
Beijing News: Why do you put a lot of emphasis on social power?
Jiang Ping: A very important point of social power is to have a social organization. Let's take the simplest example: environmental protection in countries around the world mainly depends on social power. How much agency does the state need to manage it? And the power of the private is very limited. Therefore, environmental organizations around the world play a very important role. It can even be said that in this field of environmental protection, social organizations play a very important role, and even more powerful than the power of the government. It is very important to protect natural resources, wildlife, and the ecological environment. The premise is that you must have a large number of mass organizations and social groups that can represent the interests of each part of the people. In other parts of the world, there are particularly many peasant associations and demobilized soldiers' associations, which are truly sound self-governing and self-disciplined groups that can represent the voices of some people.
Beijing News: The social power you just mentioned is actually a collection of private interests and demands.
Jiang Ping: Yes, because the energy of any individual to exercise power is limited after all.
Beijing News: Can the implementation of the Property Law and the repercussions it cause be a symbol of the awakening of people's awareness of private rights?
Jiang Ping: The most distinctive feature of China now is that people's awareness of private rights has awakened and expanded, whether it is the property law or other civil laws. Public power must now be gradually restricted, and more of it will change from a management type to a service type. This has been clearly proposed, but it is still very difficult to actually do it. Because no one wants to let go of the power in their hands, and power can get a lot of benefits, so the process is faltering. However, what China lacks most is social power, which is a big problem facing China at present.
*This article is reprinted from Professor Jiang Ping Original title: Professor Jiang Ping talks about the mission of legal people: It is the responsibility of every intellectual to shout
Source: Beijing News
Editor: Sharon