Liu Yadong talks to Ren Zhengfei: The sky is big enough, and the world will become more and more prosperous

Cover news reporter Meng Mei Fu Wenchao

On the evening of September 21, a video of a conversation between Liu Yadong, dean of the School of Journalism and Communication of Nankai University, and Ren Zhengfei, the founder of Huawei, was first exposed in a café in Shenzhen on July 7 this year. The dialogue has attracted a lot of attention because it touches on important issues in a number of fields, including technology, media and education.

Liu Yadong: First of all, please talk about Huawei's basic research. Huawei has thousands of scientists and experts, whether engaged in basic research or cutting-edge exploration, is their research driven by interest or demand?

Ren Zhengfei: Does Dean Liu know about Rafal nozzles? It is an important phenomenon in aerodynamics, the rocket engine is a Rafal nozzle, the compressible fluid is squeezed by the Rafal nozzle, and the larger the expansion of the ejected gas, the faster the speed. We also use this principle in our research and development. The boundary is determined, as long as the employee is willing to play a role within this boundary, its potential can be realized, and energy will erupt under certain circumstances. The boundary of the scientific scope is relatively wide, and the R&D team of more than 100,000 people can always find the opportunity for him to play a role, and there is a self-driving space for interest in the boundary. After the theory is determined, enter the product stage, you can't somersault like the Monkey King. Therefore, on the product side, there must be an orderly team building, and the goal of this team building is to quickly lead the world, which enters the expansion stage of Rafal nozzles. So, we have boundaries, not exactly interest-driven, but interest is encouraged and allowed.

In fact, universities also have boundaries, but their boundaries are wider. We work with universities, they can study things farther away, they can publish papers on their own, they can win awards, and they have the opportunity to be promoted to professorial academicians. It doesn't matter to us, there is no need to put our name on it. We may also have a team to help him, and this team does not need to be signed. Why? Fame and fortune, you can only want the same. Lidu is given to us, why do we have to compete with teachers for fame? That's why young professors at the university are very willing to work with us.

We used to work mainly with universities in Western countries, but considering that they are shrinking the scope of cooperation, we have strengthened our cooperation with Chinese universities.

It is probably such a structure, that is, the "trumpet" absorbs cosmic energy, and after theoretical research, mature research results and personnel quickly expand on the product side through the Rafal nozzle, and quickly complete the world-leading products. First, people are transformed through this horn, and when the Rafal nozzle is sprayed, people's character and characteristics have changed; Second, outstanding talents have a stage to display their talents. In this process, it is a flipping and jumping type, which is conducive to outstanding talents to stand out.

Liu Yadong: Does Huawei have any requirements for the person at the top of the Rafal nozzle?

Ren Zhengfei: The more than 23 billion yuan invested earlier, including cooperation with universities and basic research, we never consider returns, and there are assessment requirements only in the following product lines.

You can see the news on the evening of July 7, our Pangu large model was released, which is a large model with hundreds of billions of parameters. Our current AI cluster already supports 16,000 boards, and a future supernode cluster can manage hundreds of thousands of boards. An AI cluster supercomputing system manages so many boards, supports ultra-high-speed interconnection, ultra-efficient liquid cooling and heat dissipation, instantaneous burst power supply, and achieves high system availability, which we are not weaker than the United States.

If our products are not advanced enough, they will not be taken out and sold. I can't sell it at a high price, and I can't feed the team.

Liu Yadong: Huawei has developed a lot of software, including management software ERP, design software EDA, Hongmeng and Euler operating systems, etc. Software development is a dynamic process that requires iterative updates and an industrial ecosystem, which is certainly not something that Huawei can establish as a single enterprise, but needs many enterprises to do it together. What role does Huawei play in this?

Ren: Actually, we developed tool software because we need to use this software to design products. For example, if our goal is to build a car, we must have a screwdriver and a wrench. But without a screwdriver and wrench, a car cannot be built. "Screwdriver" and "wrench" are not our purpose. Therefore, we take various domestic manufacturers to do "screwdrivers" and "wrenches". Our people will slowly quit, and these tools are theirs. But their stuff will grow on our cloud, that is, cloudification. In this way, the domestic electronics industry can design independently. We have publicly released more than 20 tools to the public, and we have used a lot of them internally. When you can't see the shortcomings in using them, you will disclose these tools and software to the society. At that time, the company that used to develop with us took over. A further 58 tool software is being validated.

Hongmeng and Euler have business goals, which are dragging our cloud forward and strengthening the foundation of the cloud platform. The cloud platform provides rich components and services, we call it "black soil", and the development on it is SaaS, that is, social things. We still do the computing power base platform, and artificial intelligence we are also the computing power base platform.

Liu Yadong: Good products are used, and software is even more so. The cultivation of software industry ecology is a long-term process. Does this mean that Huawei, as a leading company, must have huge investment?

Ren Zhengfei: Although Euler and Hongmeng (code) donated it, we still invest tens of thousands of people a month and billions of dollars to do this every year. ERP We also unite many domestic companies to do together, all things they can take away, grow on our cloud. In the future, when it is opened, capable companies can do it, and growing on the cloud is not an ecology!

Liu Yadong: How is the ecological construction of the Hongmeng operating system progressing now?

Ren Zhengfei: There are now more than 30 operating systems in China that are built based on Hongmeng open source, covering industry terminals, mobile phones, tablets, and home terminals, adding up to about 600 million users, ranking third in the world. Hongmeng has just upgraded to 4.0, and after the upgrade, the outside will also be upgraded. There is an open source community outside, not Huawei alone, we are doing the base and kernel. We do "black soil", "corn", "soybeans" or "sorghum" on it, all partners come to grow.

Liu Yadong: In the face of US sanctions and suppression, Huawei has achieved domestic substitution of many technologies and products. In the face of an increasingly severe external environment, what development direction will Huawei choose?

Ren Zhengfei: Huawei will become more and more difficult, but Huawei will also become more and more prosperous.

If China establishes its own standard system in the future, then this standard system will definitely be better than that of the United States. American standards have been established since the 1970s and have been around for more than 50 years. Their clothes are mended and patched everywhere. We have made new clothes in recent years, why should we do it according to its standard? We directly do better standards than the United States. In addition to China, the whole world will use ah.

Liu Yadong: Education is the foundation of a nation's life, and it is also the most important support for us to catch up with and surpass the world's advanced level in the field of science and technology. In your opinion, how can we get China's education cause up as soon as possible?

Ren Zhengfei: Why has the West been ahead of us in recent centuries? The West invented trains and ships, they go fast. We drove the carriage, which was still wooden wheeled and had no bearings, so we were three to five hundred years behind the West. Now we are ahead of the West in some areas of informatization. We are sitting on the "high-speed train", and if they are still sitting on the "carriage", they will fall behind. The progress of the past and the progress of tomorrow are all in comparison with speed.

In the long run, the country's development still has to solve the problem of education. To solve the problem of education, we must first overcome the barriers of the Internet. Can the national telecommunications network be as profitable as high-speed rail? Why is high-speed rail losing money? Because the ticket price is set too low. Our high-speed rail is not profitable, but the social benefits are good. High-speed rail embodies the people, and for the people is not for the renminbi. The result of not increasing prices is better social benefits. It can be said that high-speed rail has revived China's majesty.

China's informatization still needs to be accelerated. For example, can China further improve the conditions for primary and secondary schools? Put the People's Congress Affiliated High School, Tsinghua Affiliated High School, Shanghai's good middle school... As a platform, all the good schools in China are used as a platform, and the curriculum is opened to the Internet. Can China's internet be subsidized by the state for free use by schools in border areas? The people's country is for the people. For example, schools in the area west of the Huanyong Line are paid by the state for telecommunications networks, and the state provides subsidies; If the curriculum of good middle schools in Beijing and Shanghai is opened, and middle schools in Yunnan, Tibet, and Xinjiang are allowed to attend classes in Beijing, and middle schools in Guizhou are taught classes in Shanghai, then our nation will be revitalized in 30 to 50 years.

If the people are good, the country will be good. By improving the quality of education in the western region, some social problems have been solved. Education in ethnic minority areas is a big problem, educate a good generation, he will educate the next generation, and after a few generations, many problems will be solved.

If our country makes good secondary education platform, makes it open and subsidized by the state, then students in the western region can get a better education. The flowers of the motherland are your sons and daughters! What do parents do with their money? Parents earn money to raise children. When the western region develops, the economy prospers, and the whole country progresses.

Liu Yadong: Mr. Ren has emphasized the importance of education on many occasions, and I agree with it very much. It can be said that the importance of education cannot be overemphasized. In terms of education itself, what is the most important thing to improve in China right now?

Ren Zhengfei: You compete with the West, what do you compete with? It is impossible to rely on resources, we just want to earn money back through cultural revitalization. Why is education important? Genius is born out of teenagers. Primary and secondary schools go in unison, homogenized education, burying genius. Confucius taught according to aptitude. Now some people say, don't learn English. Without learning English, rural children will always be farmers. If you don't learn English, how will you get employed in this world in the future? Others say, don't study math. If you are not good at math and English, you can't enter high-end industries, and the children of farmers will always be farmers, and class differentiation will appear. It is difficult to learn English in rural areas, I understand that. But after staying up, won't it come out? Maybe the spoken expression is not so good, but it is okay to have the ability to recognize words.

It is necessary to improve the treatment of teachers. Why do we have to have a large class education? By cutting each class into small classes of 20 people, the teaching force can be expanded by one to two times. Some people say that teachers can't create value, but teachers can create the future. After twenty or thirty years, China will be strong, and it will always be necessary to find a way out, and the education of children will be easily differentiated. More talented children will create value.

So I think that to do a good job in education, one is to differentiate; Second, the state should use good schools as a platform and allow it to become a website to bring the western region up. Now, our telecommunications have reached the countryside, but the Internet is not being used. The utilization rate of urban networks east of the Huanyong Line is very high, including in rural areas, but the utilization rate of network fiber in the west is so low, it is necessary to raise the utilization rate and do a good job in educating children, what is bad for our country?

Liu Yadong: To develop education, in addition to hardware construction, software should also be updated. For example, it is necessary to focus on cultivating students' critical questioning ability and awakening children's interest and curiosity.

Ren: Yes. If the network is free for primary and secondary schools, why not give the computing power of artificial intelligence to college students for free, and it is also subsidized by the state? College students are now counting that on the Internet, in fact, they are mastering the method, isn't this training people who challenge the future for our country! How do you know that he is not a genius in the future? Create a more open environment for college students, let college students be more active, in order to cultivate more wizards and weirdos.

Liu Yadong: In addition to education, Mr. Ren has always stressed the importance of basic research and should learn from the United States in this regard. What should we learn from the United States?

Ren Zhengfei: We still have to learn from the advanced culture of the United States, and we have never said "bring down the United States." Huawei is also doing some basic research. Basic research is inseparable from basic education. Basic education is the responsibility of the state, and without good basic education, it is impossible to cultivate top talents. In recent years, we have been recruiting talents from overseas, and it will be difficult to recruit in the future, so we must rely on domestic schools to cultivate.

In the future, we will have fewer opportunities to recruit talents from abroad, which requires China to cultivate its own talents, so we must change our teaching methods. Many famous Western schools do not have textbooks, such as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The teacher comes up and writes a call, another teacher comes up and writes a call to pass the previous criticism, and then another comes up and calls the previous criticism. After the students do their homework, the teacher just needs to see that your thinking is correct, and don't draw conclusions. The teacher himself has no conclusions, what conclusions do you want? We need to learn from this educational model.

Therefore, we should learn from the strengths of others and create national values. There is one Jobs in this world, so do we have Jobs in China? There should be ah, many smart children are very powerful. The United States still has a lot of soil to attract talents, so we in China must also have this soil to attract high-level talents.

Liu Yadong: Many scientific research and frontier explorations are "lonely long-distance runs" and have a high degree of uncertainty. The work of these developers is extremely important, but often overlooked. How to solve this problem?

Ren Zhengfei: Our country should pay attention to those who cannot directly create value. Those who cannot directly create value should also be allowed to live a decent life. Without a decent life, no one will do it, then you can only run behind the ass of the United States, a country that will never be able to lead the world.

Why did Wang Jinsong, president of Northwestern Polytechnical University, do a good job? The principals of their affiliated primary and secondary schools are even better than the principals of universities, and the Western University of Technology High School ranks among the top five in the country. Do you want your child to go to a good school? Then you come to teach at Western Institute of Technology! Western Institute of Technology has produced results, rockets, planes... The results are great, and the good people are willing to stay in that place, because the children have hope. Western Institute of Technology is such a feature, primary and secondary schools are among the top five in China, their conditions are so good, excellent teachers want to come to work in Western Institute of Technology, and they also want to stay in Western Institute of Technology.

Liu Yadong: Do you like reading? What books do you usually read?

Ren Zhengfei: When I read books, I don't understand anything. Understand a little about technical things, ask experts, discuss with experts, and learn a lot in the process.

For the same person, cultivated and uncultivated, the result is not the same. The teacher gave a lesson and told you all the essence. You can also teach yourself, but it may take you dozens of days to understand what the teacher is saying. My regret is that I didn't go to a prestigious university, didn't read a doctorate, and I envy Tsinghua University and Peking University... of children. I also sometimes listen to lectures online. Wow, Tsinghua teacher spoke so well! If I had listened to their classes when I was younger, I would have improved a lot, but unfortunately I didn't have this opportunity.

Therefore, I believe that talent training should implement a dual-track system. Everyone has the ability to learn on their own, but they also need to be well educated. A mistake in science and engineering class is equivalent to "flying". Aren't there all videos now? You can go watch the video to make up for the missed lessons. The means of education are much better now.

That's why I suggested that the West should get a new method of electro-teaching. As the quality of the Chinese people improves, the public security police are reduced, administrative costs are reduced, and creative labor is more.

Therefore, just talking about self-cultivation is one-sided, and "self-training" and "other training" should be combined. "He Pei" is Confucius's phrase "teaching according to aptitude". Don't overemphasize the "starting line", don't homogenize, don't let me learn English well so that everyone doesn't learn English.

Liu Yadong: For the growth of talents, the environment and soil are also extremely important.

Ren: Of course, the environment and soil are important. On an individual level, good birds choose trees to inhabit. If the black soil of the northeast is more suitable for tulip growth, then why do you have to grow it in the Gobi? Growing tulips in the Gobi comes at a great price. Many people spin around, but they can't turn out of the low loop. If there is a famous person to guide and a noble person to point out, won't he get out of this small cycle and come to the big cycle?

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