The Surging News reporter Luo Xin
El Salvadoran writer Horacio Castellanos Moya is an important writer in the post-"literary explosion" era in Latin America, with representative works such as "Deranged", "Disgusting: Thomas Bernhard in San Salvador", "Memory Tyrant", "Dream of Return", "Female Demon in the Mirror", "Dance with the Snake", etc., and has won one of the highest awards in the Spanish literary world, "Manuel Rojas Medal". Recently, Moya's masterpiece of fiction "Derangement" was launched by Houlang Literature, which was the first time that his work was translated into Chinese introduced and published.
Deranged tells the story of a fugitive writer who is hired by a church in a Latin American country to edit an oral archive. The 1,100-page archive records the bloody testimony of local aborigines about the massacre of the army a decade earlier. As he edited, the writer grew delirious, while the executioner who still ruled the nameless Latin American country was approaching.
Although the novel does not identify the American country, the reader can speculate that the novel is set in the atrocities committed by the military against the nationals during the 36-year Guatemalan Civil War, and that oral archive also alludes to the "Historical Memory Restoration Program" initiated by the Catholic Church in Guatemala.
Recently, Moya's masterpiece of fiction "Derangement" was launched by Houlang Literature, which was the first time that his work was translated into Chinese introduced and published.
Central America remains one of the regions with the highest concentrations of violence in the world. At a literary forum at the House of Americas in Madrid, Moya said, "We are also the product of a massacre." That's why, we're usually so keen on jokes. We use laughter to ward off insanity. Derangement is also an absurd black comedy, as Roberto Polanio once said: "The sharp humor in his (Moya's) work, like Buster Keaton's films, is like a time bomb, enough to intimidate the stupid (nationalists)'s fragile sense of stability, to make them lose control, and they are eager to hang the author in the public square." ”
After the listing of "Deranged" in China, Moya was interviewed by the surging news reporter, which was the first Chinese media interview he accepted for "Deranged". He admits that he does not know much about China and very little about contemporary Chinese literature, but he will read Li Bai and Du Fu from time to time, "Their poems are very beautiful, or the profound philosophies of Zhuangzi's pen." ”
Horacio Castellanos Moya (1957- )
【Dialogue】
In the novel, "fear" has always accompanied the protagonist
The Paper: How long did it take to complete the novel "Deranged"? What was the original source of inspiration?
MOYA: That adds up to about five months. However, it was completed in two phases: it began in early 2003, shelved writing halfway through, and then completed it in mid-2004. The story revolves around a report on human rights in Guatemala published in 1997, but it does not directly describe the report, but rather the psychological impact of the report on the editor.
The Paper: The editor, the protagonist of the novel, "I", is a writer in exile for political reasons: speaking wildly, having the delusion of being killed, accepting a job that he didn't actually want to do for five thousand dollars, venting pressure through the relationship between men and women... What is your attitude towards this protagonist? I feel a little teasing and sarcastic?
MOYA: The protagonist is a complex, somewhat contradictory character. I didn't have a joking attitude towards him. If I can't get deep into the hearts of the characters, I can't write this novel, and the jokes and ridicule will create a distance and prevent me from writing. The character may be a little funny, but these funny elements stem from his character, from the series of encounters that his worldview and neurological disorders have caused him.
The Paper: You spend a lot of ink on the psychological activities of the protagonists, such as facing the heavy massacre oral archives, "I" see their literary nature more than political and historical, what ideas do you have behind this writing?
Moya: Fiction is essentially psychological, a construction of a certain mental state, a certain way of thinking, and a sense of belonging. As far as the protagonist of "Deranged" is concerned, there is a lasting contradiction between himself and the society in which he lives, and he lives in this contradiction. He didn't believe what he was doing, but he had to do it; he didn't believe in the values of his team, but he still had to pretend to believe. He was a man of no faith, caught up in an environment of faith, not only religious beliefs, but also beliefs in values that were supposedly essential to humanity.
The Paper: In this story, "fear" has always accompanied the protagonist, including the fear of political persecution, the fear of the memory of massacre, the fear of love killing, the fear of venereal diseases... They are so ubiquitous. However, it seems that it is precisely because of "fear" that "I" am spared the fate of being assassinated like the archbishop. As a writer, how do you understand "fear"? What kind of "fear" do you think humans cannot overcome or even face?
MOYA: Fear is an integral part of human nature. Nietzsche, in So Says Zarathustra, says that fear is a basic human emotion that has been passed down from generation to generation. Fear is the fear of being pushed to the extreme, pushed to the apex of an outburst. Fear will always be with us, sometimes covered up, others revealed.
Opening
The Paper: There is a detail in the novel that left a deep impression on me, that is, the protagonist is locked up in a spiritual convent, facing the testimony of the victims of the Holocaust, and from time to time his attention is scattered, and only those who fantasize that he is the abuser of the Holocaust can be temporarily relieved. This detail is intriguing, and it simultaneously points to three deranged subjects: the victims of the Holocaust, the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and the witnesses of the Holocaust years later. What observations of human nature does such a description carry? Do you think violence is a human nature?
MOYA: There is no doubt that violence is part of human nature, part of its natural attributes in a broad sense. Through education and legislation, the long process of civilization has tried to tame man's violent tendencies, but human violence can be controlled and quelled, but it cannot disappear unless the human species disappears. Violence and fear are two sides of the same coin.
The Paper: For writers, the process of writing a novel may also be a process of thinking. What are some of the main questions you ponder in Deranged?
Moya: In the process of writing, I think about the problems that are very specific, that is, how to keep the plot, characters, environment, scenes and other elements coherent. I don't think about broad abstract questions. Think about it only after you've written it. My writing process is intuitive, not conceptual.
As a writer, the options are limited
The Paper: You resist labels like "writer of political fiction" and "writer of violent fiction," but you have also confessed that your writing is full of violent elements. As a writer, what do you think is optional? What is not optional?
MOYA: The options available to us are very limited. We are the product of the social environment, family origins, and relationships that cannot be completely transcended. Creative themes, as part of my life, have been imposed on me, and they are part of my personal experience, the time and space in which I live. The only choice I had was the way I could express it, the angle of observation, and how I would eventually appeal to the pen. But even in these active choices, I am still constantly constrained by my own nature, by my own sensory conditions. For example, I'm still not sure whether I'm more visually or audibly sharper, and that's reflected in my narrative style, which affects whether I'm better at describing the environment or creating sound. Our selection range is extremely small. I love the ancient Greek view of destiny.
The Paper: As one of the Latin American writers, where do you think your literary resources come from? You once said, "Our generation of Latin American writers is closer to American writers than to magic realism in terms of how they understand the world and what we're talking about." Why is the worldview of your generation of Latin American writers "closer to that of American writers"? Does this have anything to do with where you read it?
MOYA: I say this in a specific context. I was reading with enthusiasm the great American writers of the first half of the twentieth century: Faulkner, Hemingway, Raymond Chandler, Truman Capote, Flannery O'Connor, Darcy Hammit, Carson McCullers, and so on. I have no feelings for contemporary American literature. There is an ideological ethos dominated by Puritan sentimentalism in contemporary American literature, and I have little interest.
The Paper: In Latin American literature, do you have any particular favorite works?
Moya: "Favorite" is a word that we contemporary people love to use. I would use it to describe objects, but not literature. There are writers and works that I will keep re-reading (Onetti, Rulfo, Borges, Cesar Vallejo, Cabrera Infante, Roger Dalton, which first came to mind). Why like them? Because they enlightened me about life, about what it means to live in this world, about how to engage in literature, and how to look at the profession of writer.
The Paper: In addition to writing and reading, what other things or topics are you usually interested in?
MOYA: I watch movies occasionally. When reading the press, pay more attention to the international political section and crime news. Would go out for a beer in the afternoon. The rest of the time, silence.
The Paper: "Deranged" is the first time that your work has been translated into Chinese and introduced to China for publication. What did you know about China before? And what is the confusion? In the case of this work, do you expect anything from Chinese readers?
MOYA: I know a little bit about China, and the source is limited to some reports published in newspapers and magazines in Western countries. Only if you have personally visited a country can you talk about understanding. For example, I lived in Germany for two years, in Mexico for thirteen years, in Spain for two years, in Guatemala for two years, in Japan for six months, in the United States for twelve years, and now spend most of my time in Sweden with my daughter. I can barely comment on these countries, but I have never visited China so far, so I dare not express any opinion. The French writer André Malraux once interviewed Mao zedong and asked him what he thought of the French Revolution of 1789, to which Mao replied that it was too early to express his views on the event. I find it interesting to understand time and history in this way.
The Paper: Have you seen works by Chinese writers? If so, I'd also love to hear your assessment of Chinese literature.
MOYA: Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a lack of caution to express opinions about things you don't understand. I have not read any Chinese writers who have a reputation in the contemporary media, such as Mo Yan and Mai Jia. I'll read it someday. From time to time, I read Li Bai and Du Fu, whose poems are wonderful or Zhuangzi's profound philosophical thoughts, but know very little about contemporary Chinese literature.
Novels create their own reality
The Paper: In your view, the pillar of "witness literature" (represented by the autobiography of the Mayan-Kiche human rights fighter Rigoveta Menchu) is historical truth, but reality is complex and there is never a single truth to tell. Having worked in journalism in Mexico and Guatemala for more than two decades — what we call "non-fiction"— has this experience also influenced your attitude towards "witness literature"?
MOYA: I think it was that experience that made me understand why I didn't like "witness literature" as a literary genre. A group of people who propagate a certain political point by telling their own victimization experiences refer to this kind of writing as "witness literature." I have no feelings for political propagandists. I am interested in memory, in the autobiographical writing that carries memories, and all the contradictions, misfortunes, virtues, and cowardices of the writer that are highlighted by these words must be fully revealed.
The Paper: In the past decade, the Chinese literary community has paid more and more attention to "non-fiction", and there are also views that fiction represented by novels can no longer respond to today's reality and cannot establish a real and effective relationship with the present, so it can only turn to non-fiction for help. In your opinion, what kind of textual expression may establish a real and effective connection with the present?
MOYA: The situation stems from a misunderstanding caused by a lack of thought. Novels have never had the function of "establishing a real and effective connection with the present." Some parts can, and the other parts can't. Stendhal, Kafka, melville – just to name just three – were considered great writers many years after their deaths, many years after the present day they were writing. I speculate from your description that there are also many people in China who suffer from the kind of disease infected by technology: they think that only the present, the instantaneous, the satisfaction that can be obtained immediately, is worth writing. Understanding the world in this way makes it impossible to create lasting literature. I wouldn't think of literary creation as one of the many disposable items of our time. Recently, after a few decades, I reread The Brothers Karamazov and found that it conveyed far more understanding of humanity than most of the "now" works I had read.
"Deranged"
The Paper: Are you working on a new novel? How has your life changed since the covid-19 pandemic broke out globally in 2020? Have you come up with some new thinking?
MOYA: I don't talk about what I'm writing, which brings bad luck and blocks thoughts. As for COVID-19, it is nothing more than a reaffirmation of the vulnerability of the human species. During the pandemic, I flew four times over the Atlantic Ocean before vaccinations and spent the night on the couch at the airport. For me, the COVID-19 pandemic was a deafening noise and a nightmare because travel became difficult and masks took me breathless. Death? In my country, crime has long since become a culture, and everyone has to learn to live with death. I was afraid of death, like everyone else, but I knew it was inevitable. Death can come suddenly at any moment, and I am powerless to stop it from happening.
The Paper: Since 2020, the new crown virus has become the object or basis for a group of writers to write. What do you think about that?
MOYA: If writers don't have the kind of subjects that stir up their own internal organs and demand that they have to write about them, then it's understandable that they will naturally look for subject matter in contemporary reality. But I myself never wanted to write a novel about the epidemic, I don't need to. After my experience settles down, I may write about it in the future. "Reality" is an uncatchable concept, and that's why novels create their own reality, and the truth in fiction is based on credibility, not the era they reflect.
Note: This interview is provided by Zhang Tingting, the translator of the Chinese of "Deranged", and I would like to thank you very much.
Editor-in-Charge: Liang Jia Photo Editor: Chen Feiyan
Proofreader: Ding Xiao