Introduction: In the past one or two years, China-EU relations have repeatedly stirred up waves, among which human rights disputes have become particularly prominent. Under the banner of so-called "human rights", some groups in Europe have made accusations and smears against China; in action, the China-EU Comprehensive Investment Agreement, which has been negotiated for seven years, has been frozen by the European Parliament, and the nearby Beijing Winter Olympics have also been "diplomatically boycotted" by some countries. Why is Europe's China policy more confrontational than cooperative? How should China respond to the attacks on human rights by some groups in Europe? Observer Network (WeChat ID: guanchacn) and Guangming Daily "Broken Circle" (WeChat ID: poquan616) jointly interviewed Maximilian Krah, a member of the European Parliament who has visited China several times and vice chairman of the Afdant for Saxony in Germany, around related issues. The following is an editor's edition of The Observer Network.
【Interview/Observer Network Li Leng, Translator/Observer Network By Guanqun】
·“ The more 'white left', the more anti-China"
Observer Network: We know that in terms of relations with China, you and your AfD have affirmed China's development achievements in recent decades and advocated the active development of Sino-German and Sino-European relations. You are also a member of the European Parliament, and I wonder how many people in the European Parliament have a similar attitude towards China?
Maximilian Kla: The issue of relations with China involves differences within the party line. Even if there is opposition within our AfD, there are people who support your China in openly anti-China parties, such as the Greens and the Liberal Party.
The current trend is that the more "white left" liberals are, the more anti-China they are. （the more liberal a party is in the sense of “woke”, the more it is anti-China. The "white left" and the brainless cult of America have always been with us. For some of the old people on the right, who still had the mindset of the 1980s, there was always a Cold War against communism, and they couldn't see the changes in China and the United States.
Now, it was the liberal media and Hollywood that launched a "cultural revolution," not the Chinese Communist Party.
Observer Network: The long-negotiated China-EU Comprehensive Investment Agreement (CAI) was frozen by a high vote in the European Parliament in May 2021 (599 votes in favour, 30 against, 58 abstentions). In your opinion, what are the factors affecting the stable development of China-EU economic and trade relations? What issues need to be addressed before the CEIT is expected to be revived?
Maximilian Kla: The Eu-China Comprehensive Investment Agreement died because of the efficient lobbying work of the US-EU lobby. Economically, the EU-China Comprehensive Investment Agreement is entirely in favor of the EU, but it would show that the EU has an independent stance and is politically open to China. When the United States competes with China and Russia, it needs Europe to be its own follow-up, so the Americans have mobilized their own network of relations.
For most European policymakers, China is far from them. They haven't been to China and don't know the country, and they're suspicious. On the other hand, most European parliamentarians know the United States very well. Hollywood and Netflix have given us a very good understanding of the United States.
China can rationally defend itself, but it has not won the hearts and minds of the people, and I fear that China is still losing hearts and minds. That's why I always suggest that China should master a little more soft power!
Observer Network: Both Germany and the European Union have mentioned reducing their dependence on China, and even want to build industrial chains without China's participation in key areas. This vision takes into account strategic security, but at a practical level, how likely do you think it is to be realized? What problems may be faced in reality?
Maximilian Clara: If you look at the European Green Deal, you realize that Europe can only buy the raw materials it needs from China. Political ideals are one thing, but social reality is another. In fact, Europe will become more dependent on China, and sooner or later politics will have to meet economic needs.
Observer.com: So how do you see the relationship between China's Belt and Road Initiative and the EU's Global Gateway initiative?
Maximilian Kra: My party is the only party in Germany that has publicly welcomed the Belt and Road Initiative. I think this is a great opportunity to create a trade framework for Eurasia. The current trade framework is cross-sea, and it is important for countries to rely on the sea; with the "Belt and Road", mainland countries have their own opportunities. For Central Asia, this may also be the only opportunity for development. I think this is an opportunity for all continental countries, including Germany, where the Silk Roads can be used in both directions.
I particularly welcome China's trade initiatives, which focus on trade, whereas the current EU trade agreements focus on exporting politics rather than commodities. We must recognize that all regions of the globe have the right to govern themselves according to their own traditions and wishes, and that trade must be a mutually beneficial exchange of goods and services, not a sanction of other sovereign states through trade.
Observer Network: Since China's reform and opening up, we can see that China and Germany are highly complementary in terms of market, technology, capital and other aspects of the economy; with the transformation, upgrading and "Made in China 2025" industrialization in China , many people will compare this with Germany's "Industry 4.0" - and so on, some voices have begun to worry that the complementarity between China and Germany will become weaker and weaker, and the competitiveness will become stronger and stronger, such as in the fields of automobiles and auto parts, electronics and electrical, and renewable energy. How do you see these concerns?
Maximilian Kra: I'm not afraid of Competition from China, I'm afraid of German politics destroying our industry by focusing on climate policy in the wrong way. It is not China that destroys our auto industry or shuts down our auto factories, but that prevents the german left-wing liberal politicians who passed the China-EU Comprehensive Investment Treaty from doing so.
With the China-EU Comprehensive Investment Agreement, Germany and the Eurasian economic community will be more closely linked, and Germany could achieve significant economic growth. But our economy is in decline, but our economy is on the decline as left-wing liberals and America's global strategists join forces to block Germany's relationship with our Asian partners.
Observer Network: Chinese State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi pointed out in an interview with Chinese media on December 30 last year that "there seems to be a certain 'cognitive split' in Europe's China policy. It is difficult to imagine that the logic of establishing a comprehensive strategic partnership with China on the one hand and positioning China as an institutional opponent on the other hand not only interferes with China-EU relations, but also brings confusion to European friends themselves. "What do you think of This view of Foreign Minister Wang Yi?
Maximilian Clara: I completely agree with Foreign Minister Wang Yi. On the one hand, Europe is aware of the need for cooperation and trade with Asia, especially China, as a new engine for innovation and growth in the 21st century. But on the other hand, the thinking of many European policymakers remains stuck in the 19th century, believing that the whole world must keep pace with our European politics.
This is a neo-colonialist view, and the contemporary leftists claim that their model is "global", which is contradictory. The world in Bai Zuo's mind is not the whole world, just the West. Because they believe their model is globally applicable, they see China as an institutional adversary on the grounds that China is not "white left" enough – a reminder to China by the way: you should never be a "white left."
Observer Network: In recent years, the EU has placed more and more emphasis on so-called "strategic autonomy", but looking at the interaction between Europe and the United States during the same period, especially since Biden came to power, many people inevitably have doubts about this slogan - can Europe really fully achieve "strategic autonomy"? What do you think the EU needs to do if it wants to achieve "strategic autonomy"?
Maximilian Kra: If you want to understand German foreign policy by reading the plans of the new German government, you will find that they openly declare that Germany does not want to be autonomous, but to continue to follow the United States.
They talk about strategic autonomy only when a president, Donald Trump, who is not a "white left," comes into the White House; when it comes to China, they follow the United States, but in many other areas, they don't. Now that the United States has a more liberal president, most liberals in Germany are happy to be allied with the United States again.
That said, I don't see any substantial effort by Germany to increase its own autonomy, at least not yet.
China should "challenge Western human rights theory"
Observer Network: It just so happens that you are also a member of the Subcommittee on Human Rights in the European Parliament, so I would like to ask you some questions related to human rights. At present, some Western countries are boycotting the Beijing Winter Olympics because of so-called human rights issues, how do you evaluate this action?
Maximilian Kla: We are in an era of global competition between China and the United States, and human rights have become a political tool used to deprive the Chinese regime of legitimacy; human rights politics has nothing to do with human rights, but uses human rights for other benefits.
The Olympics are clearly an event that will help China show the world its qualities of modernity and humility, and the current sport will prevent this event from succeeding.
Observer Network: You've been to China, and you've even been to Tibet 20 years ago. Can you share with us some of your experiences and reflections on that trip?
Maximilian Clara: In 2002, I visited China for the first time as a tourist. It was a round trip, I went to Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, Lhasa, Xigaze, Gyantse and Shanghai. I was so impressed by this trip that I still remember vividly.
China is a country that is constantly improving, and the trip to Tibet in particular made me realize that Western news does not necessarily reflect reality. I have seen in Lhasa and elsewhere in Tibet that the Chinese government has invested heavily in improving people's lives and protecting local traditional cultures.
Lhasa, Tibet
In 2012, I returned to Shanghai as a student at Columbia Business School in New York to attend a seminar. At the time, we had a textbook subtitled "Irrational Fear of Chinese Robbing You of Your Job." I saw opportunities, not risks, in the book. My next visit to China was in 2018 to attend the Belt and Road Conference and in 2019 as a politician.
I remain open to China, and my impression of China has remained unchanged since my first visit in 2002. What I see in China is not a risk, but a "renaissance." China, the most populous country in the world, has a very old political tradition, and is reintegrating itself into world politics and economy with a developed culture and returning to its rightful place in the world. No one in the world can stop China's "rejuvenation," and they don't have to do so. With what I have seen, felt, and thought about China, I do not see that China is a major threat.
Observer Network: At present, China and the West have different measurement standards for what constitutes "human rights". For example, China believes that the right to life and health is one of the basic human rights, which is more prominent in the context of the epidemic; but it is clear that Western societies have different views, and many people believe that freedom is more precious than vaccination and wearing masks. Is it possible for China and the West to "reconcile" over human rights disputes?
Maximilian Kla: Frankly, you shouldn't reconcile.
Western human rights theories have gone haywire. For example, we are now debating whether changing gender is a human right, as long as a man feels that his so-called "identity" is a woman, then the man can enter the women's restroom; we are also discussing the human rights to gay marriage and abortion. Do you really want to reconcile? The West is in a terrible stage of depravity. China was at this stage before the founding of the People's Republic of China, do you want to return to this stage? More importantly, it is necessary to challenge the current Western theory of human rights.
Moreover, as I just mentioned, Western human rights policies are being used as political weapons. There are so many Soros-backed NGOs in Hong Kong, but not one in Saudi Arabia, why? Does Saudi Arabia have no human rights problems? The answer is that Saudi Arabia is an ally of the United States and China is a competitor.
Therefore, I believe that we should not seek reconciliation in the debate on what are human and fundamental rights, but should join the debate. There are so many outstanding scholars in China, and I know that you are studying the theories of the great German jurist Carl Schmidt. It seems to me that learning from his views will lead you to the right conclusions.
Observer Network: Regarding human rights, many Chinese curious about two questions. First, if according to the logic of the West, China obviously has the right to uphold a different view from the West and adhere to a different development path from that of European and American countries, so why can't the West respect China's choice? Second, are there "double standards" between Europe and the United States on human rights issues, for example, why is the smashing and burning in Hong Kong a "legitimate protest" and the occurrence of "mob behavior" in Europe and the United States?
Maximilian Clara: The West is not monolithic. The prevailing view in the West today is that the Western path is universal. The real flag of the United States and the west as a whole is not the Star-Spangled Banner, but the Rainbow Flag. If you accept the Western view, you will be as decadent as we are; if you refuse to accept the Western view, they will oppose you. My advice is to oppose Western views and find allies within the West who are equally opposed to mainstream decadent views.
Of course, we in the West have double standards. Double standards are everywhere for two reasons: first, human rights are used as a political tool; Can you imagine forcing Muslim countries to accept gay marriage? This is considered a human right in Western countries. Or compare the actions of the local police during the Yellow Vest Movement in France and the demonstrations in Hong Kong, where the French police are much more rude.
China should realize that today's West is mired in infighting, and that China cannot replicate this infighting, but should try to learn lessons and go out of its own way based on its own traditions and ideologies and rational analysis of Western chaos.
Observer Network: Back at the Winter Olympics, do you have any expectations for the Beijing Winter Olympics?
Maximilian Kra: I wish all athletes a peaceful, exciting and unforgettable Olympic Games. Critics will be proven wrong as the Olympics open.
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