Interview with the director of "The Three-Body Problem": Don't be superstitious about Hollywood, sci-fi IP has completed the metamorphosis of Made in China

The "Three-Body Problem" TV series (VIP member) officially ended, and its Douban score rose from 8.1 points at the beginning of the broadcast to 8.4 points.

"We are filming the drama in the state of the original believers of "The Three-Body Problem", we are here to defend "The Three-Body Problem", we can't let others change it, we must do it to the extreme. We certainly hope to achieve the original score, which is 0.1 lower. Yang Lei and Lu Beike told "Deep Web", "It can't be higher than the original."

The first Douban score of the original book of "The Three-Body Problem" was 8.9 points, and Yang Lei had expected this score difference. Because the original book comes with a reading threshold and involves grand narratives such as space and galaxies, it is not smooth to put "The Three-Body Problem" on the screen.

Before confirming Yang Lei as the director of "The Three-Body Problem", Tencent Video producer Wang Tiexian and "Three-Body Problem" chief producer Bai Yiqian issued invitations to many directors, but they were all declined. "I was in awe of this work, and out of this awe, I didn't dare to touch it." A big director gave reasons.

Yang Lei understood this concern and awe. The original work of "The Three-Body Problem" is a landmark in the field of Chinese science fiction works, and if you shoot flowers and brocade, you may be infamy.

Before deciding to take on "The Three-Body Problem", Yang Lei hesitated for a while. Although Yang Lei is a fan of "The Three-Body Problem", this is also his first time shooting a sci-fi TV series. However, Lu Beike, the visual director of "The Three-Body Problem", did not give Yang Lei much time to think about it, and after making many calls to "urge" to no avail, Lu Beike dispelled Yang Lei's concerns with a 20,000-word email.

Lu Beike is Yang Lei's friend for many years and the operator of special effects company BaseFX, and the two worked together deeply when filming the fantasy drama "Kyushu Sky City".

"When I read "The Three-Body Problem" in 2010, I was thinking about how to visualize the plot, and I wrote these thoughts in the email, so that Yang Lei knew that I urged him to take on "The Three-Body Problem" was not a decision to pat his head, but to be prepared, and I would try my best to provide him with ammunition in special effects so that he could let go of his psychological baggage." Lu Beike revealed to "Deep Web".

Lu Beike believes that at present, there is no bottleneck in the absolute technical principle of the domestic science fiction film and television industry. In the past 10 years, with the reserve of graphics and iconography talents, and the improvement of computer visual effects tool software and hardware, Chinese film and television companies have the soil to shoot large-scale sci-fi IP.

Previously, the best special effects could only be completed abroad, but the whole process of "The Wandering Earth 2" and "The Three-Body Problem" TV series such as real shooting, artistic creation, and special effects has completed the transformation of "Made in China".

In Yang Lei's view, although the domestic special effects production industry can be comparable to Hollywood, in terms of content presentation, domestic science fiction films should abandon imported science fiction coats and establish Chinese cultural confidence.

Unlike Hollywood steampunk, doomsday wasteland, space opera and other genres of science fiction, Yang Lei set the creative idea of realism before filming. "I told the crew, first forget about science fiction, first think about how to find realism. To make a Chinese science fiction film, you must first make the domestic audience believe the story, follow the rhythm of the plot, and then slowly discover that there are aliens, so that the audience has a process from belief to surprise. Yang Lei said to Deep Web.

Yang Lei also paid attention to the complaints of some viewers. Feedback such as "Why did you give Mu Xing such a heavy scene" and "This detail does not match the original" will also trigger Yang Lei and the crew to think and discuss.

"We expected when filming that some fans of the original book would be unhappy with the adaptation, and even felt that the plot dragged on. However, film and television creation needs to consider the viewing experience of ordinary audiences, and appropriate adaptation is necessary to allow audiences who have not seen the original work to understand the complex issues in the plot simply and easily. Yang Lei explained.

But being faithful to the adaptation of the plot is only Yang Lei's duty as a director. As a fan of the original book of "The Three-Body Problem", Yang Lei hopes that the audience can go further when watching "The Three-Body Problem", regard it as a philosophy book, and have a new understanding of the world view and cosmology.

"Although the original book is controversial with thought experiments such as the Dark Forest, The Three-Body Problem gives us a possibility, and seeing this possibility, we will reflect on how to make the world a little better." Yang Lei said.

The following is the transcript of the dialogue between "Three-Body Problem" TV series director Yang Lei and visual director Lu Beike compiled by "Deep Web". The two directors systematically introduced their thinking on the values and world view of "The Three-Body Problem", as well as their understanding and judgment of the development trend of domestic science fiction industrialization and industrialization.

"Don't be superstitious about Hollywood, establish Chinese values"

"Deep Web": What is the Douban score of the "Three-Body Problem" TV series, and what are the results in the minds of the two directors?

Yang Lei: It took 7 years from the intervention of Bai Yiqing, the chief producer of "The Three-Body Problem", to the start of broadcasting, and the chief screenwriter Tian Liangliang changed the script for 4 years. After the crew was completed, the editing took more than a year, and the music arrangement took 7 months. Every day for 4 years, we have been around how to shoot this drama well, picking every detail, and some of the special effects of some shots have been done more than 500 times. Footage of this modification hundreds of times abounds.

It can be said that I am filming the drama in the state of a believer in the original "Three-Body Problem". On the first day of filming, I joked with Bai Yiqing, we are here to defend "The Three-Body Problem", we can't let others change it, we must do it to the extreme.

Lu Beike: As a fan of the original book, I hope to achieve the score of the original book, which is 0.1 lower than it.

Yang Lei: Yes, it can't be higher than the original.

"Deep Web": It is difficult to film and television "Three-Body Problem", and there has been a "miscarriage" record of "Three-Body Problem" filmization before. Compared with ten years ago, what changes have taken place in the industrialization of domestic film and television? Can China's film and television industrialization support the filmization of science fiction works such as "The Three-Body Problem" today?

Yang Lei: Compared with ten years ago, the technology and price of domestic special effects production have changed significantly. The first special effects I worked with Bether 10 years ago was to make waves. At that time, doing sea wasting money and laborious, if there was a crew doing special effects of water in the shot, the industry would feel that the crew was very rich. Now with the iteration of technology, the price of special effects is also decreasing, and many crews can afford special effects.

In the entire social ecology, in the past decade, mainland science and technology have developed rapidly, such as manned spacecraft, rocket launches, etc., which means that we have a scientific and technological foundation for shooting science fiction works. Since 2010, my cooperation with Betco has mainly been on fantasy films, because fantasy is done forward. At that time, even if we shot high-precision and high-tech pictures, the audience who did not have such a strong understanding of technology would not believe that it was technology; Now my cooperation with Beck is mainly on science fiction films, and the audience has national confidence in the level of science and technology in the mainland, and can accept that science fiction is around.

"Deep Web": Director Lu has worked in the special effects industry for many years, what do you think of the development of Chinese science fiction films in the past ten years?

Lu Beike: From the perspective of the special effects industry, the software and hardware of computer visual effects tools have been greatly improved in the past decade. In addition, in terms of talent reserve, there are more and more talents in graphic iconography, which is the soil for us to shoot large-scale science fiction IP.

"Deep Web": Special effects companies BaseFX, Digital Domain, etc., have all experienced the process from serving Hollywood to serving domestic science fiction, what is the growth of the domestic film and television special effects industry?

Lu Peike: I have also experienced this process. Although Hollywood movies used to find domestic special effects companies to do outsourcing services, the best special effects before were still done abroad.

"Monster Hunt" is a dividing point, the special effects of "Monster Hunt" are made by BaseFX, and the character animation, special effects, etc. in it are completely produced in China, without the participation of foreign companies. The actual shooting, artistic creation, and special effects of "The Wandering Earth 2" released this year were also completed by Chinese companies from beginning to end. The technical director, front-line creators, first-line compositors and animators of the "Three-Body Problem" TV series are all the Chinese company's own team.

"Deep Web": Hollywood science fiction has formed various genres such as steampunk, doomsday wasteland, space opera, etc., why did Hollywood give birth to these genres?

Yang Lei: Hollywood science fiction films can produce various genres related to their national conditions and development, and there is soil for producing science fiction. From Verne's "Around the Earth in Eighty Days" to "Base" and "Dune", if you understand their content, you will find that they are expressing their history, country, and nation through science fiction dramas, which is the core and attribute of Hollywood science fiction. Including the setting of the Star Wars race in "Star Wars" later, it is a reflection of the American values at that time.

In China, science fiction is an imported product, and it is easy to fall into the trap of imitating various genres when making science fiction films in China. For example, mimicking the steampunk style, the story is set in an overhead world where steam technology is at its peak. China has not experienced the age of steam, and the audience cannot perceive it.

Therefore, when we are looking for the foothold of Chinese science fiction, we must look for Chinese genes and find the ideological and spiritual core we want to express. No matter which genre, it must have its own "core".

Da Liu (Liu Cixin)'s "The Three-Body Problem" has a strong value output, it has its own cosmology, values, and outlook on life, even if the reading threshold is high, it can affect many readers.

Beck is a crazy science man, a heavy fan of science fiction, and a fan of "The Three-Body Problem". In 2006, when "The Three-Body Problem" was serialized in Science Fiction World magazine, we were reading and discussing "The Three-Body Problem". Beck persuaded me to write a 20,000-word email with "The Three-Body Problem", and I am still impressed by the last paragraph, "If our lives can be combined with "The Three-Body Problem" once, there will be no regrets in this life." ”

"Deep Web": After filming "The Three-Body Problem", did you find your own direction in terms of the uniqueness of domestic sci-fi films?

Yang Lei: When I decided to make "The Three-Body Problem", I told the crew, first forget about science fiction, and first think about how to find realism. To make a Chinese science fiction film, you must first make the domestic audience believe the story. At the beginning of the TV series, the characters are placed in real situations such as Beijing in 2007 and Northeast China in 1969, in order to make the audience believe the story, follow the rhythm of the plot, and then slowly discover that there are aliens, so that the audience has a process from belief to surprise.

The whole film, whether it was the casting of the actors or the set, we were based on realism, including the games in the play, and we also considered what level the game was in 2007. At the beginning of the film, the first thing the audience hears is the news of the preparations for the 2008 Olympic Games, which instantly gives the audience a feeling that this is real. With the foreshadowing of realistic scenes, the audience will think about the universe and the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

Lu Beike: The reason why the "Three-Body Problem" TV series has a strong sense of substitution is that we think about this with a realistic attitude. Including the second part of "The Three-Body Problem", we must also think with realism, such as what will we be like in 100 years? What are the core concepts of Chinese? It is necessary to put down the sci-fi coat imported from the West and think about the problem with Chinese ideas. In the matter of Chinese science fiction, we must build our own cultural confidence.

"15 thought experiments for The Three-Body Problem"

Deep Web: You've been emphasizing realism, what realistic issues do you want to reflect through The Three-Body Problem?

Yang Lei: The original book of "The Three-Body Problem" itself reflects many practical issues, and there are 15 thought experiments in this book, including four thought experiments in the first part. Liu Cixin is very sensible, more like a scientist writing.

The first thought experiment is whether individuals can destroy the entire world in the age of technological information. The answer given by Da Liu in "The Three-Body Problem" is, yes, Ye Wenjie and Monitor 1379 on the Three-Body Star. If we go back to the cold weapon era a hundred years ago, it is impossible for individuals to destroy the world.

In today's frequent black swan events, a button may herald destruction. This thought experiment is relevant.

The second thought experiment was to hit the snake seven inches. What is the seven inches of a civilization? Is it technology, what is the seven inches of technology? The answer given by Da Liu is fundamental physics. So in the original work, the Trisolarans sent an invisible Chiko to lock up the entire human technology.

The third thought experiment is, what is most important when two armies are at war and traitors appear inside? The answer given in the original book is that the chat records of traitors and enemies are the most important, so there was a later guzheng operation, using a nanoknife to cut the "Judgment Day" into several pieces, just to get the information. There is also a reality metaphor for this.

When many fans of the original "Three-Body Problem" watch the three-body problem, they are not looking at the storyline, but as a philosophy book, so as to have a new understanding of the world view and cosmology.

"Deep Web": During the filming of "The Three-Body Problem", Da Liu went to the scene to visit the class. What impressed you when you got along with him?

Yang Lei: I am a fan of his, and seeing him has a feeling of "the Lord is coming", I am very nervous. In order to relieve the tension, I have been looking for topics to ask Da Liu for advice. A colleague from the crew later asked me: "Director, why do you talk so much?" ”

First, I was afraid of the cold field, and secondly, I was nervous, and my heart was beating "knock knock" all the time. Originally, Da Liu's itinerary was to leave after visiting the class. At the end of the day, I received a message saying "Da Liu is waiting for you to eat". I quickly rushed back to eat, skewers, chat, and ask all kinds of questions with Da Liu. Including how did he write Shi Qiang and Wang Miao? Why write Einstein and Newton like his next-door neighbors? Later, I read "Newton" and "Einstein", and found that they were such people. Da Liu, a person who was born, portrayed the characters so clearly.

An iconographic expression of science fiction

"Deep Web": The "Three-Body Problem" TV series needs to visualize and visualize many abstract concepts in astronomy and physics in the original work, how to systematically build this transformation?

Lu Beike: We have roughly three styles of visual presentation. First, realism, such as the collision and deformation of the hull in the guzheng operation, needs to be realistic in the basic physical principles. The original book does not specifically describe the rotation of the antenna on the radar peak and how it is combined with the telescope, but in the shooting, we have to present it realistically, which is a realistic style.

The second style is artistic treatment. For example, in cartoons, elements such as turkey farmers and shooters have undergone a lot of artistic processing. Because eating turkey on Thanksgiving is a unique American holiday, and the farmer theory was proposed by the British philosopher Bertrand Russell, when designing turkey farmer animation, it will definitely adopt the style of Western art animation, rather than the Chinese animation style.

The third style is scientifically explained animation, CG (computer animation). For example, when Wang Miao and the elderly Ye Wenjie talked about the level of cosmic civilization in the abandoned Red Bank base, they explained the first-level civilization, second-level civilization, and third-level civilization. The level of alien civilization was first proposed by astronomer Nikolai Kardashev, and filming here needs to be shot like a documentary.

In addition, showing the relationship between stars, three-body planets and three stars in space is a scientific and educational film presentation. Space is extremely empty, we shoot space directly, and the audience can hardly see anything, so we need to put their position relationship particularly large, mainly to let everyone understand this picture like looking at a map of the rotation of eight planets. Basically, the whole film is constantly mixing these three expression modes for picture design.

"Deep Web": Whether it is pre-shooting or post-processing, the industry chain of sci-fi film and television production is very complex. If there are practitioners who want to enter the sci-fi film and television production industry, where should they start? What types of jobs are involved?

Lu Beike: First do research, study what the facts are, science fiction film and television production should be more content than form. For example, to represent a computer CPU, you need to understand binary, NOT gates, tubes, transistors, VLSI circuits, lithography machines, only to understand these to know how CPUs are produced. Based on this, return to the creative idea of realism and restore it through the picture.

Turning words or conceptual things into pictures is called conceptual setting.

Once the concept is set, you'll have to do the corresponding production methods, including physical effects and computer effects. If it is pure CG production, if you need real shooting production and physical special effects, you need to study the shooting method. This place starts to fork, physical special effects need to find more actual modeling, making sculptures, including miniature shooting, you have to find photographers who understand miniature landscape, take light focus things as far as possible, as deep as possible, shallow depth of field looks like things will be particularly small. If it is a computer special effect, the simplest division is divided into modeling, animation, and material mapping.

Physical effects and computer effects are subdivided into various types of work, such as animation and dynamic simulation, which are divided into many modules. In general, a lens goes through a dozen modules, and some will be longer.

Deep Web: In these complex chains, what technical bottlenecks do Chinese science fiction films and television face?

Lu Beike: It's fine. If there is really a technical bottleneck, it is not only the domestic science fiction film and television industry to face, but the whole world graphics and iconography to face. Some are bottlenecks in basic principles, and there is no absolute bottleneck in technical principles now.

Human beings themselves are three-dimensional visual animals, and seeing things must be three-dimensional vision. You can't actually represent four-dimensional and five-dimensional space without using mathematical means. All our basic research on computer software and graphic graphics is based on a three-dimensional perspective. The last picture you see, even if you look at it with stereoscopic glasses, its production principle is the final projection on the flat surface. Use a flat picture to simulate a three-dimensional sense of three-dimensionality.

If we really want to show the two-dimensional in "The Three-Body Problem", the limitations of the software are there. You can only make metaphors, this place cannot be absolutely conveyed. For example, the real four-dimensional space and five-dimensional space, you can only compare it in a high-level summary of the picture, and it is impossible to convey it absolutely. Because your underlying logic is to turn three-dimensional things into two-dimensional, if you want to involve this kind of thing, you are to design it figuratively.

"Deep Web": Some readers think that the first part of "The Three-Body Problem" mainly takes place on Earth and has a realistic basis. "Dark Forest" and "Death Eternal" take place in the grand space and distant future. Are the second and third parts visually difficult to present?

Lu Beike: The most difficult part has already been said, and the rest can only be studied a little bit. For example, real large space warships cannot be produced under the gravity of the earth, and we need to study where the docks for the production of the space fleet will appear, whether it is low-Earth orbit, far-Earth orbit or Lagrange point. After finding the place, consider the dimensions of the battleship, the metal components, and what the materials will look like. For example, the battleship in "Star Trek" inherits the imagination of giant dock giants such as space opera, and we may also build the battleship more realistically based on the style of the three-body problem.

"Looking up at the stars will correct human arrogance"

"Deep Web": "The Three-Body Problem" mentions many grand propositions related to the ultimate destiny of mankind. How do you understand the future of humanity?

Lu Beike: The more advanced your science and technology, the more globalized human beings are, in fact, some places become more fragile. Some things are more complex and accurate, and the more fragile it will be.

Science fiction does not assume the function of predicting the future, but it can provide people with some perspective on thinking, influencing the choices made by real individuals in the face of external circumstances and the way they think about problems.

I personally feel that the role of science fiction novels such as "The Three-Body Problem" is to let young people see the possibilities that natural science brings to human society, and the limitations of human beings themselves.

Natural science is not political, it is a science based on the underlying rules of the world and the laws of nature. Compared with technology, medicine, etc., our exploration of the human brain is relatively backward, because ethically, we cannot directly open the brain to study. Therefore, I think that many questions must be answered beyond the original biological attributes of human beings, so thought experiments in creation are more important. Digging into some serious topics is a sense of mission and a spur to yourself.

"Deep Web": Da Liu once said that he hopes that science fiction works can make mankind think about the fate of the future, etc., how do you understand?

Yang Lei: Da Liu also said, "I only write about what is possible." I think that's important. What do we write science fiction based on? Dismantling the word science fiction is technology and fantasy, that is, the fantasy theme based on science and technology, and hard science fiction is based on science to fantasize about possibilities.

The Three-Body Problem raises many possibilities, such as the controversial Dark Forest theory, which is only a possibility. I once read a book that said that humans are complex animals, so complex that they eventually self-destruct. Seeing this possibility, we must always reflect on ourselves, reflect on our own civilization, artificial intelligence is about to develop, what impact will it have on us humans? Many science fiction works have various expressions, when we see a certain possibility, do we have to reflect, do human beings have to be so complex again? So we use science fiction to reflect and make our world a little bit better.

Deep Web: After filming "The Three-Body Problem", what do you think of when you look up at the stars again?

Lu Beike: I still like to look up at the starry sky, I belong to the kind of people who do not pay special attention to daily life, it is easy to think about the future, and I feel that individuals are very small in the big world. When I look up at the stars, I correct my arrogance. Because there may be countless planets moving where you can't see, they may just be a speck of dust.

Yang Lei: That's an interesting question. The last scene of the crew's finalization was the scene where Ye Wenjie returned to Qijiatun, and the villagers asked Ye Wenjie, are you afraid of the stars falling? I was very impressed.

I've said a lot lately that we are a drop in this long river of history. When you look up at the stars, many things are relieved and let go. The trisolarans have gone through so many cycles of civilization, I wonder if the earth has also experienced it, but we don't know. When we look at things on a large scale of the universe, many things such as arrogance and jealousy will be let go.

Deep Web: The beginning of the story of "The Three-Body Problem" revolves around the "non-existence of physics", have you ever doubted the authenticity of modern technological civilization?

Lu Beike: This question is more individual. I was seventeen or eighteen years old and loved watching David. Hume, Carr. The books of philosophers such as Popper had a great influence on my outlook on life and the world, especially Hume's agnosticism.

Asimov proposed the three laws of robotics in the novel "I, Robot", and when I read this book as a child, I felt that this law was true. But when I grow up, I will question this law. Because you need to define what is a human and what is a robot? Like the "Ship of Theseus" paradox, it is full of definitions and skepticism.

It suddenly occurred to me one day that the biggest problem with this skepticism and agnosticism is that the creature of man is originally piled up by certainty, and if you explain your life with an uncertainty, it is nothing, without coordinates. The most basic question of human beings is, where do people come from and where do they go? When human evolution is clear, the sense of nihilism diminishes. Although people are small creatures in time and space, with coordinate points, they can better understand the world.

Yang Lei: If I think about human civilization on a higher scale, it can indeed trigger me to reflect a lot. For example, how was "Zhou Yi" written, and it can still be passed down to the present? Many people regard "Zhou Yi" as metaphysics, and I sometimes wonder if "Zhou Yi" may be some kind of mathematical formula left to us by the previous generation of civilization to help us calculate the future.

It is normal to trigger reflection, just like the space battleship in "The Three-Body Problem" is vulnerable in the face of water droplets, I will think that when the eight-nation coalition army clears the government, it is a hot weapon versus a cold weapon, a war between high-dimensional civilization and low-dimensional civilization.

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